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Author Topic: Understanding Basics of LIne Array vs Point source  (Read 5784 times)

Mike Pyle

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Re: Understanding Basics of LIne Array vs Point source
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2021, 10:48:39 AM »

If that steel truss over the stage front area were structurally approved for it a single speaker/cluster hung in the middle would probably cover the dance floor and most of the room. Hung high, along with a sub if needed, and aimed down at the dance floor area could minimize slap from the back wall. A few distributed speakers in the side areas could be used for intelligible fill.

It looks like they may be laying out some fancy plaster work on the wall behind the stage. That area could benefit from some heavy tapestry instead.

Best to place the sub(s) as close to the mains as possible.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2021, 10:54:31 AM by Mike Pyle »
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Steve-White

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Re: Understanding Basics of LIne Array vs Point source
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2021, 02:01:14 PM »

I agree,for a proper installation in the room that you linked to the pictures $10,000 would not get you a system to fill all the needs you listed.

Don't forget the cost of room acoustic treatments to make it workable.

With a reputable Sound Design Contractor this is in the $50K> neighborhood for a turn-key package.  If public address is a need for building use, this should have been given consideration from the onset as part of the building plan and budget.

I guess you probably already know that and are saddled with "it wasn't" and are assisting with oversight of the corrective action.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2021, 02:07:09 PM by Steve-White »
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Masis Ingilizian

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Re: Understanding Basics of LIne Array vs Point source
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2021, 06:31:42 AM »

 

The inverse square law is what dictates sound loss over distance, combined with air loss in the high frequencies based on temperature and humidity. Basically you need energy for distance, but more more in the HF.  Combining multiple identical sources of sound requires that they be within a predefined distance from each other, which is based on their wavelength (frequency). IE its easier to couple low frequencies (longer wavelengths, drivers can be further apart) than high frequencies.  On top of that, using signal delay processing, you can direct sound from a flat front, which is where that processing comes into place. 

I am still reading this write up it was great, thanks very much.

Just the above paragraph you mention "On top of that, using signal delay processing, you can direct sound from a flat front, which is where that processing comes into place." You can direct sound from flat to what? And what do you mean by flat..? LIttle confused here... So we use processing to do what?
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Masis Ingilizian

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Re: Understanding Basics of LIne Array vs Point source
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2021, 06:35:51 AM »



And it seems most of the time subwoofers are placed infront of the singer or beside the stage, I am just curious how we battle SBIR? Especially when the first mode SBIR is fought with placing subs close to a wall and playing the frequencies within the subs range.

I know SBIR will be significantly less in a large venue, and the front wall will probably be the only issue and ofcourse the floor but would a cardoid pattern sub placed away from the wall have less SBIR?
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David Morison

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Re: Understanding Basics of LIne Array vs Point source
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2021, 08:42:55 AM »

I am still reading this write up it was great, thanks very much.

Just the above paragraph you mention "On top of that, using signal delay processing, you can direct sound from a flat front, which is where that processing comes into place." You can direct sound from flat to what? And what do you mean by flat..? LIttle confused here... So we use processing to do what?

It is possible, with the right speakers & processing, to have a straight, vertical array of drivers, (the flat front) but make it behave as if it were at some angle other than vertical, or even curved.
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Masis Ingilizian

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Re: Understanding Basics of LIne Array vs Point source
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2021, 09:37:30 AM »

If that steel truss over the stage front area were structurally approved for it a single speaker/cluster hung in the middle would probably cover the dance floor and most of the room. Hung high, along with a sub if needed, and aimed down at the dance floor area could minimize slap from the back wall. A few distributed speakers in the side areas could be used for intelligible fill.

It looks like they may be laying out some fancy plaster work on the wall behind the stage. That area could benefit from some heavy tapestry instead.

Best to place the sub(s) as close to the mains as possible.

That's a great idea, I can see how that would play out in the room. But it would be a complicated set up for a simple wedding hall with a limited budget..

Just your last comment. Put subs as close as possible to mains but if sub is off the wall how do we tackle SBIR?


Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 09:41:41 AM by Masis Ingilizian »
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Masis Ingilizian

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Re: Understanding Basics of LIne Array vs Point source
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2021, 09:39:45 AM »

It is possible, with the right speakers & processing, to have a straight, vertical array of drivers, (the flat front) but make it behave as if it were at some angle other than vertical, or even curved.
Very interesting, if there is any articles on this please link them in. I will read into it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

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Masis Ingilizian

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Re: Understanding Basics of LIne Array vs Point source
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2021, 09:42:05 AM »

With a reputable Sound Design Contractor this is in the $50K> neighborhood for a turn-key package.  If public address is a need for building use, this should have been given consideration from the onset as part of the building plan and budget.

I guess you probably already know that and are saddled with "it wasn't" and are assisting with oversight of the corrective action.
Yes, I would have been more than happy to get an online consultant for the PA set up if I had the chance to set everything up right from the start. Now, we are limited so within the limits I am trying to make do with what we can manage

For instance, I really wanted some type of absorbtion on bottom part of the front wall behind and on the sides of stage to battle SBIR and only got 20cm I can come forward on the sides better than nothing I suppose. Also the ceiling is a drywall and we can't get in there so that's a bummer as well, could have easily just slapped in some soft fluffy stuff but it's not so bad the gap in the ceiling(60cm) will still work as some type of diaphragmatic absorber to some degree.

I still feel I can get it right bring down reverberation and have a decent point source system won't be 5 star but might get close to 4

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

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Jeremy Young

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Re: Understanding Basics of LIne Array vs Point source
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2021, 10:40:43 PM »

Manufacturer EAW makes several products in their “adaptive series” lineup that do what I described.  Check their website for further reading. 
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David Morison

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Re: Understanding Basics of LIne Array vs Point source
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2021, 06:18:17 AM »

Very interesting, if there is any articles on this please link them in. I will read into it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Here's one: Beam Steering article, a search on "beam steering arrray" or "beam steering loudspeaker" should get you lots of hits too.

Cheers,
David.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Understanding Basics of LIne Array vs Point source
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2021, 06:18:17 AM »


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