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Author Topic: Using matrixes  (Read 496 times)

Stephen Swaffer

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Using matrixes
« on: November 16, 2021, 10:55:46 PM »

Am I thinking correctly?  I have 3 QSC K12's for my FOH-not ideally hung, but close to correct for getting wider coverage with minimal overlap.  For a theatrical coming up, we have side stages that are two story and I will have vocalists on the upper stage.  I have individual feeds to my SQ-7.  Currently, the side speakers on are on an aux mix-the center is to a mono matrix.  I think it would make more sense to leave the center as is, but send Main LR mix to a second stereo matrix-I assume this would allow me to pan mics from the L to R speaker?  I am not looking for a stereo sound-rather the ability to pull a vocalist back slightly on one speaker or the other if I have a gain before feedback issue.
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Steve Swaffer

doug johnson2

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Re: Using matrixes
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2021, 07:18:17 PM »

I am not familiar with the SQ-7 but, given the scenario you describe you might want to try Left-Center-Right (LCR).  If the mixer supports it. 
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Matthias McCready

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Re: Using matrixes
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2021, 09:24:17 PM »

Am I thinking correctly?  I have 3 QSC K12's for my FOH-not ideally hung, but close to correct for getting wider coverage with minimal overlap.  For a theatrical coming up, we have side stages that are two story and I will have vocalists on the upper stage.  I have individual feeds to my SQ-7.  Currently, the side speakers on are on an aux mix-the center is to a mono matrix.  I think it would make more sense to leave the center as is, but send Main LR mix to a second stereo matrix-I assume this would allow me to pan mics from the L to R speaker?  I am not looking for a stereo sound-rather the ability to pull a vocalist back slightly on one speaker or the other if I have a gain before feedback issue.

I don't believe the SQ7 can send a channel directly to a matrix.

You would potentially want you speakers each on the matrix level, and you would want the particular vocals on a specific mix.

To turn down the vocal in a particular speaker (matrix) you could turn down the "singer X" mix send to that Matrix.

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For what it is worth if you haven't considered the following (you may have done all of this already).

1. Microphone choice: For headsets a cardioid will allow for a higher GBF; however this is at the expensive of placement being more important, wind/movement noise, and not sounding as natural. For HH's a 58/B58 will have more GBF vs a condenser style microphone.
2. Ringing out the microphone with a graphic EQ can net you about +6dB.
3. Walking the stage and seeing where coverage starts, influence people to not walk there, or stay a few feet back.
4. Have the conversation to say "Hey I want the show to go as best as possible, however with where the stage is I am going to need some help, could you make sure you talk extra confidently and loud for me?"

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Also, personal opinion and not at all dealing with what you asked about, but if you have any inputs that are stereo in nature such as keys or electric guitar pedal boards having an L-R-L setup is often preferable to LCR. The reason being that some sources will be negatively impacted by being summed to mono for that center speaker. This will give some version of "stereo" to most of the audience.

« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 09:31:26 PM by Matthias McCready »
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Using matrixes
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2021, 12:40:50 PM »

The SQ does not do LCR. The main mix is by default stereo-since I wanted a mono mix for the center I assigned the LR mix to a mono matrix.

The system is already rung out to the extent I want to-and I may be overthinking this-but won't know until rehearsal if I have an issue or not-once I get to that point my time is limited since this is an all volunteer production and deference to people's lives, we put it together in a crazy short amount of dress rehearsal time.

Out of a dozen or more songs during the show, only one or two will have vocalist(s) on a stage that puts the mic within 8 feet or so of the speaker-probably just outside the "coverage area"-with very limited space for them to be arranged for visual effect-we may or may not be able to move them.  The mic would be assigned to the stereo LR mix-the stereo LR mix to a mono matrix (which I assume mixes the LR to mono) as well as a stereo matrix which would drive the two outside speakers.  I was hoping panning that mic to one side would leave the center essentially unchanged.  Obviously, the mix would be skewed slightly in the seats on both sides-so for maybe 25% of the audience total-but it seems a lot of things in live audio are a compromise?
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Steve Swaffer

Matthias McCready

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Re: Using matrixes
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2021, 03:02:21 PM »

The SQ does not do LCR. The main mix is by default stereo-since I wanted a mono mix for the center I assigned the LR mix to a mono matrix.

The system is already rung out to the extent I want to-and I may be overthinking this-but won't know until rehearsal if I have an issue or not-once I get to that point my time is limited since this is an all volunteer production and deference to people's lives, we put it together in a crazy short amount of dress rehearsal time.

Out of a dozen or more songs during the show, only one or two will have vocalist(s) on a stage that puts the mic within 8 feet or so of the speaker-probably just outside the "coverage area"-with very limited space for them to be arranged for visual effect-we may or may not be able to move them.  The mic would be assigned to the stereo LR mix-the stereo LR mix to a mono matrix (which I assume mixes the LR to mono) as well as a stereo matrix which would drive the two outside speakers.  I was hoping panning that mic to one side would leave the center essentially unchanged.  Obviously, the mix would be skewed slightly in the seats on both sides-so for maybe 25% of the audience total-but it seems a lot of things in live audio are a compromise?

Not sure how you are utilizing the your mixes/groups and matrices but I you have extra you could set up:

1) Speech (Mono) - Pastors mics, anything you want Mono all of the time.
2) Playback (Stereo) -iTunes, video inputs etc.
3) Band (Stereo) - all the instruments
4) Vocal (Stereo) - all of the vocals you are not worried about
5) Spare (Stereo) - place the vocal that you are worried about here.

Now set the matrices as your speakers
Stereo Matrix 1: This can do your two speakers you are not worried about.

Stereo Matrix 2: This is stereo so that you can put your your extra speaker assign your 3rd speaker to whichever output would be "stereo" to the speaker it is next to.

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Now for that Vocal you can turn down the send of group/mix 5 to Stereo Matrix 2. Other than the send of group/mix 5 all other sends would be the same to Matrix 1 and 2.

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To make this even easier for your show you could set the Send level of Group/Mix 5 to Stereo Matrix 2 as one of your assignable encoders on the console surface. :-)

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lindsay Dean

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Re: Using matrixes
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2021, 01:16:25 PM »

For all you kids playing along at home
a buss carries inputs
a matrix carries buses
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Using matrixes
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2021, 02:35:53 PM »

For all you kids playing along at home
a buss carries inputs
a matrix carries buses

A common mistake, perhaps because of the name of “Buss” fuses. A peck on the cheek is a 2 s buss, a signal carrying path is a 1 s bus.
[/pedant]

Mac
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Using matrixes
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2021, 04:10:14 PM »

Apparently this statement "I assume this would allow me to pan mics from the L to R speaker" brought some confusion.  I was merely talking about the desired result-leaving out intermediate stage(s).

Obviously, the routing would be:

mic input>LR (main) bus>Matrix 1 (which is mono)
                                    >Matrix 2 (which is stereo)

In my mind, this produces an at least psuedo  LCR which would allow a mic input that was panned to shift from the L to R or vice versa.  It would introduce some (I think) minor discrepancies in iTunes playback-which is usually only walk in music.  Show music files are DAW tracks to mono inputs.

Using multiple buses to accomplish this seems to overcomplicate things.
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Steve Swaffer

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Using matrixes
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2021, 04:10:14 PM »


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