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[Ed Taylor]

ok guys, asking for a lot of grace here as you provide some feedback

Small stage audio was always a small side biz portion of my pro backline biz. Sold the pro shop to a larger concern about 4 years ago.

but kept the small PA and private events portion of the biz.
Took a year off after the sale to rest the body and clear my plate.
The intent was to then just do the occassional party band gig with my already aged, but long paid for PA.
Then comes covid to add another 18 months age to my gear and now, resurfacing the biz as some of the market has picked up.

so the question:
for those of you who have used similar gear over the years, is it worth spending some new $ now to get a few more Db ?

In the pricepoint of QSC K18 sub series type market footprint. Do those subs, (for live bands, not DJ) really give me more than my old Mackie SWA1801s and SWA1501s provide.

all the gear is well maintained and has worked faithfully this year. But Fall festival seasons is upon me and I acknowledge my rigs limits as intended for more wedding band indoor type work...and yet I find myself being asked for more outdoor small town stuff and my rig is pushed pretty much to what it can do.

I am NOT looking to step up into a next level of pro gear. I'm just curious if the newer offerings from EV, QSC, etc that today hold the market recognition that Mackie once help, are really going to give me more?

I can search for old forum posts from back in the days when guys were all abuzz about the new mackie stuff back then. And I've gotten very good service, made good money with my old rig.  I'm not working it more than a dozen times a year, and I don't push it...it does what it does...and it that's not enough..then that's all there is.

my FOH:
per side (2) 3-way MAckie 1530s and (2) mackie SWA subs. Honestly much of the work I've ever done has been smaller /indoor venues where half the rig was plenty. 

appreciate hearing from old guys like me that were at one time happy to have their shiney new mackies, but made the move to new rigs.

thanks

Ed

[Caleb Dueck]

ok guys, asking for a lot of grace here as you provide some feedback

Small stage audio was always a small side biz portion of my pro backline biz. Sold the pro shop to a larger concern about 4 years ago.

but kept the small PA and private events portion of the biz.
Took a year off after the sale to rest the body and clear my plate.
The intent was to then just do the occassional party band gig with my already aged, but long paid for PA.
Then comes covid to add another 18 months age to my gear and now, resurfacing the biz as some of the market has picked up.

so the question:
for those of you who have used similar gear over the years, is it worth spending some new $ now to get a few more Db ?

In the pricepoint of QSC K18 sub series type market footprint. Do those subs, (for live bands, not DJ) really give me more than my old Mackie SWA1801s and SWA1501s provide.

all the gear is well maintained and has worked faithfully this year. But Fall festival seasons is upon me and I acknowledge my rigs limits as intended for more wedding band indoor type work...and yet I find myself being asked for more outdoor small town stuff and my rig is pushed pretty much to what it can do.

I am NOT looking to step up into a next level of pro gear. I'm just curious if the newer offerings from EV, QSC, etc that today hold the market recognition that Mackie once help, are really going to give me more?

I can search for old forum posts from back in the days when guys were all abuzz about the new mackie stuff back then. And I've gotten very good service, made good money with my old rig.  I'm not working it more than a dozen times a year, and I don't push it...it does what it does...and it that's not enough..then that's all there is.

my FOH:
per side (2) 3-way MAckie 1530s and (2) mackie SWA subs. Honestly much of the work I've ever done has been smaller /indoor venues where half the rig was plenty. 

appreciate hearing from old guys like me that were at one time happy to have their shiney new mackies, but made the move to new rigs.

thanks

Ed

Have subwoofers improved greatly over the past few years?  Yes.  Has that improvement included even the lower price points?  To an extent. 

Look at the specific drivers used, knowing that the overall subwoofer is a lot more than just a driver, and that price-point-driven subwoofers have multiple compromises to hit a price point.  The driver itself is worth looking at because it establishes the quality level of one key variable.  The amp module and processing is another big variable, along with overall design (port type, area, 'chuffing', etc). 

Subwoofers overall aren't cheap, because the cost of 'real' drivers and 'real' amp modules isn't cheap.  I would look at moving up a step (better drivers/amps/design), not only due to less mushy sound - but deeper bass (more powerful feeling) and higher output.  Meaning - why lug around 4x mediocre subs when you can take 2x better ones - less space, quicker setup, and better sound?

[Dave Garoutte]

Look at the Yamaha DXR DXS series.  I prefer the sound over the QSC.  And they're cheaper.  7 year warranty.

[Ed Taylor]

Look at the Yamaha DXR DXS series.  I prefer the sound over the QSC.  And they're cheaper.  7 year warranty.

thank you both..

1)better tonal quality - i get it.
2) Actually able to produce more volume? ie. 2x 1801Mackies  vs. 2x Yamahas?  I'm trying to justify going from a competely paid for rig that can  do the job, to spending a couple thousand to try and get a perceptible different in volume/throw

ET

[Art Welter]

thank you both..

1)better tonal quality - i get it.
2) Actually able to produce more volume? ie. 2x 1801Mackies  vs. 2x Yamahas?  I'm trying to justify going from a competely paid for rig that can  do the job, to spending a couple thousand to try and get a perceptible different in volume/throw

Ed,

1) The 2x12" QSC Ksub would be a step down from what you have, the Yamaha DXS18 a lateral move.
2) Not enough SPL or extended LF frequency response to make a difference- room placement would have far more influence than the difference you would hear.

There are powered subs available that have 6dB more output potential (double the "throw") than what you have, but they will have +3 to 6dB more cost as well.
You could get 6dB more buying 2x 1801 used for a fraction of the cost, if you feel the need.

Art

[Jay Marr]

Not putting down you gear, because I've had some of those old Mackie subs....but yes, new subs are MUCH better.
Those Mackie are very weak in comparison to most decent powered 18" subs.

[Paul G. OBrien]

In the pricepoint of QSC K18 sub series type market footprint. Do those subs, (for live bands, not DJ) really give me more than my old Mackie SWA1801s and SWA1501s provide.

What you get from the Prosumer market in a sub these days is a smaller/lighter package with more amplifier power and much more advanced DSP onboard that in some cases will go a bit lower and may(or may not) get a bit louder. It's hard to know with the amount of specs fudging that goes on these days.
But that is only if you replace the boxes 1 for 1... which may be missing an oportunity if you are prepared to replace them all. Something like a single Bassboss SSP118 can apparently replace 2-4 consumer 18" boxes in terms of SPL and produce more lowend extension.

[Brian Jojade]

The question that matters is are your clients going to pay you more for using the newer gear, or are you going to save in labor or transport costs?  If either are significant enough to buy new stuff, go for it.  If not, older stuff can keep making money.

[Bill Hornibrook]

my FOH:
per side (2) 3-way MAckie 1530s and (2) mackie SWA subs. Honestly much of the work I've ever done has been smaller /indoor venues where half the rig was plenty. 

appreciate hearing from old guys like me that were at one time happy to have their shiney new mackies, but made the move to new rigs.

thanks

Ed

All I can say is wow! You are really buff if you're still still moving those super awkward and insanely heavy particle board cabs around! 

I was stuck with those same cabs for years in a club's house system. Whenever they needed to be moved, I'd get the security guys Loved them in 2009 though...

I found the tops thin and hissy when pushed, making it difficult to get vocals out front with loud bands. I'll give it to the 1801 subs for kick though. They seem to be tuned to that, but little else - and wow do they limit fast.

But is it worth replacing if you only average a show a month? Only you can answer that.

[Travis_Valois]

All I can say is wow! You are really buff if you're still still moving those super awkward and insanely heavy particle board cabs around! 

I was stuck with those same cabs for years in a club's house system. Whenever they needed to be moved, I'd get the security guys Loved them in 2009 though...

I found the tops thin and hissy when pushed, making it difficult to get vocals out front with loud bands. I'll give it to the 1801 subs for kick though. They seem to be tuned to that, but little else - and wow do they limit fast.

But is it worth replacing if you only average a show a month? Only you can answer that.

Last gig I did (music playback with announcing at a drag show) I dragged out  my Community CSX60 subs and used my old JBL K140/2270 loaded 4560 cabs for tops.

Sent from my SM-G981W using Tapatalk

[Thomas Le]

Sad story on those mackie SWA subs, I posted about the "higher end" mackie system a few months ago. When it was time for the gig, the amp module got the magic smoke. Seeing as they're long since discontinued, I'm gonna have to figure out how to convert them to passive versions...

Is the SRX818S too pro for your taste? It's lighter and more powerful.

[Ed Taylor]

All I can say is wow! You are really buff if you're still still moving those super awkward and insanely heavy particle board cabs around! 

I was stuck with those same cabs for years in a club's house system. Whenever they needed to be moved, I'd get the security guys Loved them in 2009 though...

I found the tops thin and hissy when pushed, making it difficult to get vocals out front with loud bands. I'll give it to the 1801 subs for kick though. They seem to be tuned to that, but little else - and wow do they limit fast.

But is it worth replacing if you only average a show a month? Only you can answer that.

LOL...handtruck is my friend.... actually, driving them with my old school Presonus Studiolive rigs, I've been more pleased with their sound than I expected..I've had a pair of 1530s going head to head with a DJ rig that used QSC K12 tops on stands.  I was there for the live band during the event and then a seperate DJ was there for his part. He had his rig painfully hot to make up for the fact that he didn't bring any subs.. those QSC12s were louder than my 1530s can actually go. But honestly at that point I didn't even want to be in the room with him, and neither did half the guests.  But to the point, seemed like a lot more throw from a more contemporary 'prosumer' (I like that term) QSC box and yeah, lot easier on the load-in.

[Tim McCulloch]

Old versus new?  Talking gear or labor?

As I get older the new gear is more appealing because it's lighter, louder, and sounds better than the back-breaking stuff we toted with barges 'back in the day.'  Even the wheel cannot make up for some of the particle board and rat fur monstrosities of yesteryear.

Even without the rat fur, there's nothing graceful about moving, lifting or shifting a KF-850 so it happens on the pro side of the gear aisle, too.  And since there are still a dozen in our shop... the SRX-835p we have seem like mere trifles.  The KF-850s and accompanying amp rack will easily outperform the SRXs by 6+dB or more, but that comes with a +6dB more weight and inconvenience.

[Scott Bolt]

Well .... for me, it would be worth changing out the rig tops and all to get the size and weight down.  Of course, if you are in this for the money, then you can't beat "paid for" at any price.

As for sound quality, I think that any newer QSC KW, Yamaha DZR/DXS, or JBL SRX system would be a noticeable step up in output and sound quality while being smaller and lighter.

I really never cared for the Mackie powered speakers you have just for full disclosure.  To this day, I equate that bright blue LED with ear piercing and confused sound out front with a distinct lack of a well defined bottom end.

This is just one mans opinion of course.

[Tim Weaver]

A DXR12 on a tripod will get louder and sound better than your current tops. You aren't supposed to do 2 a side though.

Any of the current gen 118 powered subs will be a significant improvement in response and volume over your subs.

All of this will weigh 1/2 to 1/3 of what your current mackie rig weighs.



But if I were spending my money in your situation I'd probably go for the JBL SRX835P over the SRX828SP. This gives you roughly the same form-factor of the PA you have now, and it is roughly in the same "class" but the SRX stuff will stomp the ever living daylights out of the mackie rig and sound really quite good while doing it. Also it will weigh less. The tops are easily manageable by one beefy guy or two regular folks. Unlike the outrageously heavy and awkward 1530's.

[Heath Eldridge]

like others have said - the modern gear is better.

I wouldn’t go the QSC - I’d focus more on the more modern stuff. Personally I use RCF which is great but also things like yamaha dsr and JBL SRX (even the modern mackies) will be better.

Here’s the question: you say what you have now, already does your indoor gigs, and you want to do outdoor festival level stuff. I’m not sure that more modern gear in the same class will make that step up. It really depends what you mean… a family event with a kids entertainer or metal bands…

[Rick Powell]

Here’s the question: you say what you have now, already does your indoor gigs, and you want to do outdoor festival level stuff. I’m not sure that more modern gear in the same class will make that step up. It really depends what you mean… a family event with a kids entertainer or metal bands…

With Tim's suggestion of SRX 835p over SRX 828sp's, the 835s are somewhat arrayable. You could double up that system now or later and be good for a nice outdoor gig for several hundred people for most any music format. A single stack each side would be adequate for some outdoor events and not enough for others, depending on SPL and coverage expectations.

[ProSoundWeb Community]