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Rackmount supercapacitor?

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Tracy Garner:

--- Quote from: Ned Ward on November 27, 2021, 05:39:40 PM ---Our marching band has a Cyber Power PR2200LCDRT2U UPS unit to protect the TF5 mixer.

Last Saturday was a double whammy - power at Huntingon Beach HS failed, and our generator (Champion 100158R) decided to stop working (engine ran, GFCI outlet kept tripping). Ran the 8 minute show on just the Cyber Power UPS.

Besides the Yamaha TF5, also had these speakers also on the unit:
EV ETX-35P x 2
EV ETX-18SP x 2

Worked fine. Getting the generator checked/tuned up to understand what's tripping the GFCI - I suspect crappy old low gauge 100' Home Depot extension cables that may have shorts, too low a gauge, too long, or a mix or all those.

--- End quote ---

This is awesome info. The only thing I need to protect is an external powered hard drive and a Behringer X-32. As long as I have the AVR, it should work for what I need. The X-32 would only reboot on really hard peaks on the generator. This makes me believe the battery would have time to recover.

boburtz:

--- Quote from: Tracy Garner on November 28, 2021, 09:46:29 AM ---This is awesome info. The only thing I need to protect is an external powered hard drive and a Behringer X-32. As long as I have the AVR, it should work for what I need. The X-32 would only reboot on really hard peaks on the generator. This makes me believe the battery would have time to recover.

--- End quote ---
We installed regular ol' Cyberpower PR500cdrt1u into our console cases, just to run the console in case of a power interruption, thinking this would save us from the headache of a reboot in a short power loss. What we found was, they do not like generator power. Any deviation in the ac supply would cause them to go into battery mode, even if briefly (~10 seconds at a time). This was happening so often that it would deplete the battery and then possibly shut down completely. It happened every time we used generators as our power source, and these were multiple different rented multiquip whisperwatt (or equivalent) high power diesel units. I'm sure a double conversion system would avoid this, as they operate as regulators, not just battery backups. We removed them from our console cases and no longer use them in production. My experience is that they cause more headaches than they solve. I would advise double-conversion regulators or nothing.

Steve-White:

--- Quote from: boburtz on December 13, 2021, 03:22:19 PM ---We installed regular ol' Cyberpower PR500cdrt1u into our console cases, just to run the console in case of a power interruption, thinking this would save us from the headache of a reboot in a short power loss. What we found was, they do not like generator power. Any deviation in the ac supply would cause them to go into battery mode, even if briefly (~10 seconds at a time). This was happening so often that it would deplete the battery and then possibly shut down completely. It happened every time we used generators as our power source, and these were multiple different rented multiquip whisperwatt (or equivalent) high power diesel units. I'm sure a double conversion system would avoid this, as they operate as regulators, not just battery backups. We removed them from our console cases and no longer use them in production. My experience is that they cause more headaches than they solve. I would advise double-conversion regulators or nothing.

--- End quote ---

No snobbery intended here - but, a $350 solution to a $1000 problem could be what went wrong.  I run multiple tower UPS's on generator without issues - haven't tried a 1U or 2U Rack Mount yet.  What it takes is being able to adjust the power quality sensing in the input of the UPS and decent generator power.  You probably had pretty decent power, but low end UPS's.  Learning how to do it took some testing, upgrading generators and testing.

Testing is your friend.  However, if renting generators testing could get expensive and may not be worth it.  I own my generators.  :)

boburtz:

--- Quote from: Steve-White on December 13, 2021, 04:46:12 PM ---No snobbery intended here - but, a $350 solution to a $1000 problem could be what went wrong.  I run multiple tower UPS's on generator without issues - haven't tried a 1U or 2U Rack Mount yet.  What it takes is being able to adjust the power quality sensing in the input of the UPS and decent generator power.  You probably had pretty decent power, but low end UPS's.  Learning how to do it took some testing, upgrading generators and testing.

Testing is your friend.  However, if renting generators testing could get expensive and may not be worth it.  I own my generators.  :)

--- End quote ---
You are correct that these were consumer level ups units. We were trying to solve the Yamaha USB drive recording from being corrupted by a power interruption. Our solution was to use a relay feeding the gpi and the UPS being the failsafe. These inexpensive units were not the solution, thus my advocacy for double conversion units. In our situation, they needed to be rackmounted for ease of setup and portability, as they were installed in a rackspace beneath the console inside the road case, and always connected to the gpi. We are a mobile company, so we get generators of multiple sizes (from Honda EU6500 to multiquip 160kva and higher, depending on the necessity) from multiple vendors. The cheap UPS units didn't like any of them. Ultimately, we decided it was more of a headache than it was worth, and scrapped the idea of an onboard UPS. We may revisit once business gets back to full swing, but will be using double conversion for the next experiment.

Steve-White:
^^^ Look for UPS's that you can adjust the power quality sensing on the line input and you'll be set bro.

I went through several UPS's and about /12 dozen generators getting things sorted out and learning.  Glad I did now, but it was frustrating.

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