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Author Topic: How Do I Deal With COVID as a Production Business?  (Read 14485 times)

Dave Garoutte

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Re: How Do I Deal With COVID as a Production Business?
« Reply #50 on: September 25, 2021, 02:04:18 PM »

We spent a year and a half non-socializing, going to extra effort to sanitize and not spread any communicable diseases. No wonder the flu barely registered.

See, that's not what happened at all. Do we really need unsupported speculation like this?

I feel like this thread is bordering onto politics.
It's gotten a bit off topic (see title).
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John Sulek

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Re: How Do I Deal With COVID as a Production Business?
« Reply #51 on: September 25, 2021, 02:33:03 PM »

I wasn't going to say more-but I will say that the last three posts are encouraging from the standpoint that it is a well thought out discussion of the issues at hand.  Conversations like this are more likely to move my hesitancy than arguments such as "case counts are going up and the unvaccinated are to blame"-when clearly, if vaccinated can get sick and transmit it can't be blamed on them entirely-and if vaccinated can carry and transmit, vaccination will never eradicate.

I am willing to be persuaded-but honest reasoned discussion is a better persuader than dramatic rhetoric such as unvaccinated are killing vaccinated.

Here is a financial incentive for getting the shots.
If you need to cross any borders in order to work, then you need to be fully vaccinated or plan on spending a lot of time and money on extra testing and quarantine hotels.
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Lee Wright

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Re: How Do I Deal With COVID as a Production Business?
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2021, 04:55:33 PM »

I'm the original poster.    It wasn't my intent to discuss COVID in general but only from the point of view of how to deal with it as a business.  I am pleased to see a mature, civil discussion of it though & some valid points have been made on both sides.   It's a refreshing change from other online forums.

I have gotten some really valuable feedback from my overseas comrades.   It's a bit like being able to see into the future which is super useful.   For example I've already contacted all contractors to find out if they're available (as I gather we'll need them all) & their vaccination status.   I've also updated our booking policy & OH&S policy.

If people want to continue discussing how to deal with COVID as a business or individual technician that would be great but I fear that if we get too far off topic that this post will rightly be deleted by the admins & this valuable discussion will be lost.

Cheers Lee.

Russell Ault

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Re: How Do I Deal With COVID as a Production Business?
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2021, 11:45:49 PM »

My reading is showing much different stats than what you mention. There is no possible way that 90%+ of ICU beds are used up by Covid patients. {...}

Luke, these are the official numbers from the Government of Alberta, on the Government's own website. As of September 21st (the most recent day for which statistics are available), there were 249 patients in ICU beds here, of which 230 were COVID patients (in a province that, in normal times, only has 173 ICU beds total). According to this press conference given by our chief medical officer a couple days ago, “...92 per cent of those in the ICU right now have not had both shots”, and “One hundred per cent of new ICU admissions (in the past week) were in Albertans who did not have any vaccine protection”.

Nor am I bluffing about the military being called in to help.

I really am not making this stuff up.

{...} Russ, your written French is way better than mine. Je parle les deux langue. Francais et Bloke....

Je suis flatté! Je parle les deux langues de l'Alberta: l'anglais et le "Google Translate"...

-Russ
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Chris Hindle

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« Reply #54 on: September 26, 2021, 12:55:07 AM »

Je suis flatté! Je parle les deux langues de l'Alberta: l'anglais et le "Google Translate"...

-Russ

Nice one Russ.
Never saw that coming......

Stay SAFE!
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Luke Geis

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Re: How Do I Deal With COVID as a Production Business?
« Reply #55 on: September 26, 2021, 03:21:50 AM »

I wouldn't call it politics. And totally not derailed either. Information trading at the very least.

I suspect some here are getting angry at me, but I am not angry at anyone. This is a polarizing subject. There are very few middle-ground subjects and most are either on one side or the other.

I'm not familiar with Alberta, I don't speak French, and USA data is all I really follow. When it comes to other countries I am ignorant of their data sets. Mostly because I have NO INTENTIONS of traveling. I don't think you make this stuff up, but whatever the USA is doing seems to be keeping things at bay enough at least. As for other countries, I have no idea? We are here talking about people traveling, throwing events, concerts, and gathering in groups. Seems a bad idea to me to be doing so. Easy answer... Stop doing that.

I say it, but perhaps it gets overlooked? So let me reiterate my contribution, stance, and solution. There is a pandemic that is a communicable disease. This means STAY AWAY FROM PEOPLE. This, to me, means don't travel, don't gather in large groups, respect people's space and follow guidelines. I wash my hands regularly and stay away from people. I don't travel to places outside of my region. Low and behold, for over two years I have not had so much as a cold! That is my contribution, I respect people's space and follow guidelines. I don't like it, but I do it. I preach no vaccines and no mandates and can also say that I have had no illnesses in a considerable amount of time. I am practicing what I preach. Probably because as much as I say hogwash, I also do things that keep me from eating my words.

My stance is that if you or anyone else is brazen enough to blame the problem on Un-Vac's, become angered by those who are not all about " it " ( " it " being covid mandates and vaccinations ) and that you 100% believe the data spewed by media about the virus as gospel, are not realistic, fair or free from sin. If you travel, cross borders, gather in groups, go to sports games, concerts and do things that are not in the best interest of eliminating or reducing the possibility of infection, you are more a part of the problem than you think. Just because you are vaccinated does not mean you are not a super spreader, you are in fact a super spreader with a super spreader card that gives you access to super spread even more than an Un-Vac. You don't suddenly become free of the burden because you possess a card. That is my stance.

My solution is simple. STOP traveling, STOP gathering in groups, STOP blaming Un-Vac's, STOP going to events, STOP forgetting your vaccination DOES NOTHING TO STOP THE INFECTION OF YOURSELF OR OTHERS!!!!! Just stop. We are all equals, we are all in this together and we are all part of the same problem. I want to work just as much as the next guy, I LOVE MY JOB. I can't help but feel upset about those who want to throw a party yet have crazy rules about vaccinations and masks when they shouldn't be throwing a party at all. If you are scared or care at all about covid, don't throw a party, don't travel, and don't think for one second that you are better than another because you have a card that allows you to do that. That simple. When you get sick, you become just as much a spreader as anyone else. I am not scared of covid, I am not allowing myself to be persuaded, pressured, or forced into getting a vaccine that has little or no efficacy for a virus that will naturally become less lethal over time anyway. The solution is simple, don't do things that amplify the potential for you to become infected, or to infect others. The vaccine is NOT effective at stopping the spread of the virus, at best it reduces your symptoms, making you become even more likely to do normal human things and spread the virus.

As it pertains to managing a production company, it doesn't change much. I am so busy I am angry when the phone rings. I need less work. I am turning clients away. My company has what I would consider a moderate covid policy that follows my area's current rules. Vaccinations are NOT required but recommended, masks on the Jobsite are required as per city and state rules, but not otherwise. When we do accept a client that has stringent vaccine demands we are open and tell them that such staff in its entirety may not exist and we will provide a negative test and wear a mask as requested, and if you can't accept that, well good luck finding another company that can fill those demands and in your budget, timeframe and with quality. The company I work for is the benchmark for quality in my area. You cannot get better and if you do, it will cost you multitudes more.

I would say that having a 100% vaccinated staff may be a leg up in the industry? I only feel that forcing that hand also makes you quite the panderer, sheep, or grunt if you will. To me, making it a mandate for workers and a selling point is scummy and money-grubbing. We all know the vaccine does little in regards to the protection of infection, and no one will argue that with an iron fist. So forcing the hand on it and using it as a selling point to drum up business is not much better than Monsanto saying they took the orange out of the agent by making it green ( technically the US Gov't created Agent Orange with help from a University of Illinois employee Arthur Galston and then compelled Dow and Monsanto to produce the chemical for their use, so while Monsanto gets the short stick, they aren't actually the ones who created the stuff) so it has a better appeal to sell. You can't guarantee that one of your employees won't infect someone anymore than you can't guarantee that they won't become infected by someone at the event.

The dangers of the mandates are already happening. A family friend of mine ( not vaccinated ) works for the school district. Guess who has a sweeping vaccinate or terminate policy going into effect? This particular school of course. She has worked with the school for nearly 30 years as a teacher. She does not want to vaccinate for her own reasons, who am I to ask or criticize why, but the reality is that the only job she has ever known is on the chopping block. For what, another person who is just as likely to become infected as she is to take her place? What does that do to her pension? Does the pension of the newcomer compare ( I highly doubt it as pensions are becoming rare and less beneficial, and the Windfall act isn't helping)? This can get ugly for everyone. Imagine 25% of the working population saying hell no, I will not vaccinate and losing their job? The economic impact would absolutely destroy everything you hold dear. Housing, 401K, portfolios, you name it, everything would absolutely eat poop. You think labor is hard to find now, imagine needing someone who can work with Soundvision, Smaart, La Network et all and having a million-dollar PA you need to put up for a gig, but because the guy's who know that aren't and won't get vaccinated, can't be employed to do it. It is the epitome of having your cake, but absolutely not being able to eat it. The possibility is real. Just as real as you getting covid. And if you have already gotten it, you know how real it is. But you are alive to live that reality. All I am saying is forcing the hand that actually feeds you is usually not a good idea. We need to play a different game, and it starts by just being smart, not sweeping silly mandates on the masses. I think it starts with being real and saying NO more often. No travel, No parties, No mandates, and NO you can't throw a 250 person wedding... Freaking duh.
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John Sulek

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Re: How Do I Deal With COVID as a Production Business?
« Reply #56 on: September 26, 2021, 10:10:47 AM »

My solution is simple. STOP traveling, STOP gathering in groups, STOP blaming Un-Vac's, STOP going to events, STOP forgetting your vaccination DOES NOTHING TO STOP THE INFECTION OF YOURSELF OR OTHERS!!!!! Just stop.

As it pertains to managing a production company, it doesn't change much. I am so busy I am angry when the phone rings. I need less work. I am turning clients away. My company has what I would consider a moderate covid policy that follows my area's current rules.

 You are correct that the vaccine does not make you invincible or unable to be a source of transmission. That's why we still wear masks, lots of personal hygiene, sanitizing high touch items, etc. I have quite a collection of negative test results.
 But the vaccine certainly lowers your chances of severe illness or death which lessens the strain on the health care system.
 I am failing to follow your logic when you say you want everyone to stop gathering and going to events to reduce the spread of Covid, but then talk about how busy you are doing these events.
 
 Back on topic.
 I just got back from a festival that had strict protocols in place in order to meet the local regulations.
 Everyone had to do a screening/contact tracing (including providing proof of vaccination) at the security gate to get site credentials.
 Everyone masked except for musicians actually on the stage performing.
 No traditional catering as such. Take out orders which were consumed inside our production trailer away from others.
 Folks came and had a good time.
 This seems to be the way forward, at least in these parts. Hopefully the health dept statistics will bear out that this model is not contributing to any increases in the case count.
 Be well and stay safe everyone.
 
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brian maddox

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Re: How Do I Deal With COVID as a Production Business?
« Reply #57 on: September 26, 2021, 12:57:16 PM »

...
 Back on topic.
 I just got back from a festival that had strict protocols in place in order to meet the local regulations.
 Everyone had to do a screening/contact tracing (including providing proof of vaccination) at the security gate to get site credentials.
 Everyone masked except for musicians actually on the stage performing.
 No traditional catering as such. Take out orders which were consumed inside our production trailer away from others.
 Folks came and had a good time.
 This seems to be the way forward, at least in these parts. Hopefully the health dept statistics will bear out that this model is not contributing to any increases in the case count.
 Be well and stay safe everyone.

I just did a festival in CA with similar protocols although it was testing at the gate and masks and such rather than required vaccination. I came away with mixed feelings. On the one hand, it was great to return to some semblance of normalcy. I was also encouraged by the normalization of common sense precautions against infections of ANY kind [namely distancing as much as possible and strict masking when NOT possible]. In short, most people just "got it" and observed the common sense protocols without complaint or much "bending of the rules".

That being said, would I have done the job if I were NOT vaccinated? Nope. I saw enough bad behavior [not prevalent, but it did exist, mostly among the talent and associated hangers-on (hanger-ons?)] and I had to be in enough "compromised situations" [like shuttle buses to get to the site from the parking lot] that I would have not been comfortable working the event without knowing that my chance of infection was reduced and that my chances of getting seriously ill was also sharply reduced.

I also was "the truck guy" which meant I had no exposure to the public and also no real exposure to the performers so I was able to stay fairly isolated which made me more comfortable.

These are complicated times. They require making difficult decisions based on incomplete data. Like everyone else, I'm doing the best I can for my situation with the data set that I have. In the meantime I continue to try to build a production business based on mixing shows from my house because it's the safest place for me to mix from. I also like mixing in my PJs...  :)
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Luke Geis

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Re: How Do I Deal With COVID as a Production Business?
« Reply #58 on: September 26, 2021, 08:44:25 PM »


 I am failing to follow your logic when you say you want everyone to stop gathering and going to events to reduce the spread of Covid, but then talk about how busy you are doing these events.
 

let's be realistic, and keep in mind that in other posts I have mentioned that the people have spoken and don't care..... I am a sound engineer, production manager, event staffer, business owner, whatever you want to call it. I NEED/WANT to work. Our career does not put us in a good place considering the current situation. Businesses have failed and went under, hence why I am as busy as I am. The choices are few and the demand EXTREMELY high. Why do I get so many calls? Because the majority of people don't truly care.

I am not afraid of covid. I am not on the spectrum for needing to fear it. 95% of my staff is also not on the spectrum of needing to worry about it. That being said, perhaps 90% of my staff is vaccinated, some by choice, some by pressure from family, and some by Gov't policy ( I have a Marine Reserve on my team who does not want to but is because they told him to or he will get a dishonorable discharge ). I am not because I AM SCARED TO DEATH of any potential reaction. Keep in mind I have had HORRID fixed drug eruptions from over-the-counter drugs. I have also had less than fun reactions from other prescriptions I have gotten. The thought of vaccinating to find out I am allergic has no appeal, seeing as how I could end up in the hospital anyway for something other than covid... We are ALL POTS calling KETTLES black. I am no more a hypocrite than the next sound guy, band member, or event staff at an event.

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Scott Helmke

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Re: How Do I Deal With COVID as a Production Business?
« Reply #59 on: September 26, 2021, 09:47:16 PM »

Luke,

Why do you assume that everybody else is cowering in fear from this disease?  Maybe fear isn't why the majority of people have gotten vaccinated.  It just seems to me like you keep coming back to variations on "I'm not living in fear" as the main theme of your argument.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: How Do I Deal With COVID as a Production Business?
« Reply #59 on: September 26, 2021, 09:47:16 PM »


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