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Author Topic: Venue remodel: Power  (Read 400 times)

dave briar

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Venue remodel: Power
« on: September 13, 2021, 11:41:56 AM »

So our remodel/expansion of the indoor venue is progressing. It turns out we have a 200amp panel to “spend”.  Presently we’re considering ten 20amp circuits — three to the amp rack, two to the over-audience light bar, one to the upstage overhead light bar, and four to the stage (two for back line and two downstage).  We did two large outdoor shows this summer where we rented the stage and PA and our electrician installed a 50amp drop to support those events. His question now is do we need/want another 50amp installed for the indoor venue as well.

Given this will be a 450-500 cap club with installed PA and lighting my thinking is that it would be rather unlikely a visiting production would need more power than what will already be available.  Am I right or am I thinking too small?  Any thoughts on the matter would be greatly appreciated.
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Venue remodel: Power
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2021, 12:26:55 PM »

There is no reason you can't put in ten 20 Amp circuits and a 50 Amp circuit.  Circuits don't use power-loads do.  The chances of you loading every 20 amp circuit to 20 amps is minimal-and likely if you use the 50 amp, some of the 20's would be left unused.  For my money-given what I hear on here, I would install a 50 amp circuit with a cali and a 14-50 receptacle to cover any distro they might bring.

For that matter, if you might use more 20's at a given location for some types of events put a couple.  It is better to use installed wiring than use an extension cord to a receptacle in the "wrong" place.
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David Simpson

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Re: Venue remodel: Power
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2021, 12:29:03 PM »

It really depends on the type of shows you are bringing in, and what you are looking to do in the future. We see even small bands bringing more and more with them. Video seems to very much be a growing production component for even low lever groups. I have never been disappointed buy putting in more power while doing such a project. I'd say go ahead and have them include the additional 50A.

~Dave
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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Venue remodel: Power
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2021, 12:53:18 PM »

Throw in a cam tie-in for good measure  ;D
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Venue remodel: Power
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2021, 02:14:00 PM »

I don't see any reason NOT to put that 50 amp plug in the venue if you have the option.

No, it won't get used every day, but when you have a touring act that has stuff pre-wired, it's way easier for them just to use the tie in vs having to rip stuff apart and tie in to your circuits.

No, you're not limited to only having 200 amps worth of breakers in your panel.  And, if you're running single phase 240v power, that would be 20 20 amp 120v breakers.  If you're running 3 phase, it would be 30 breakers.

As far as where to run those circuits, if you're letting people hang stuff from the light bars, this is where power can be really handy.  Some older lighting would need a single circuit for each light.  Yeah, most tours don't use that stuff, but some one offs may love it if power was up there and available.  An extra 4 20 amp circuits available on each light bar would be pretty awesome.

On the stage, I'd say double your plan, at least.  Again, you may never NEED that many circuits, but having more available sure comes in handy, especially when you get unknowns plugged in.  Keeping things on separate circuits, even with low power draw is nice because if something horrible happens to one device, it doesn't take out a bunch of other stuff if the breaker trips.

And, if you've got the ability, adding a 100 amp service tie in for the random big stuff would be an added bonus.  Relatively cheap to do now, but has you ready for the unexpected.

Yes, if you try to do ALL of it at once, you'll trip the main breaker. But that's how pretty much every panel is wired. 
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dave briar

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Re: Venue remodel: Power
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2021, 07:23:53 PM »

Thanks y’all. Yes, we were aware that a 200amp service can have more than 200amps of breakers — the mentioned ten 20amp circuits was just how the preliminary numbers worked out. Extremely unlikely that all ten would ever be loaded to their maximum at one time.

Brian, your point about an act having everything prewired to their distro is something that I hadn’t considered. Thanks for the heads up on that.

I spoke with the electrician and the owner today and adding a 50amp outlet is a go.  Would prefer not to have to install multiple outlet-form-factors so maybe a twist lock and then provide an adapter to 14-50?
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Brian Adams

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Re: Venue remodel: Power
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2021, 10:22:56 AM »

Thanks y’all. Yes, we were aware that a 200amp service can have more than 200amps of breakers — the mentioned ten 20amp circuits was just how the preliminary numbers worked out. Extremely unlikely that all ten would ever be loaded to their maximum at one time.

Brian, your point about an act having everything prewired to their distro is something that I hadn’t considered. Thanks for the heads up on that.

I spoke with the electrician and the owner today and adding a 50amp outlet is a go.  Would prefer not to have to install multiple outlet-form-factors so maybe a twist lock and then provide an adapter to 14-50?

I would just install a 14-50. They're a lot cheaper and easier to source, and anyone who's using a California connector will have an adapter to get into a 14-50.

That's my opinion, and all of my distros and cables all have California connectors.

That said, I doubt it'll get used much, but it's a nice option to have.

Also, as noted previously, put in plenty of circuits, not just 10, but label them all really well so you know which outlet is on which breaker. And feel free to have a couple of outlets per circuit.

One other thought, most bands are probably going to be fine with your FOH system. The audio gear they're likely bring would their own stage package and IEM rig, which isn't going to take a ton of power. There's a small chance they'd bring a big power hungry wedge/sidefill package, but I'd say those chances are slim and going down by the day. In the future, they're more likely to be bringing a lighting package, video system, or LED wall that might need a lot of juice, and those are the kinds of things I'd plan for. A cam disconnect wouldn't be a bad idea, or at least lugs, especially if it's a 3-phase panel.
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Brian Adams
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Venue remodel: Power
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2021, 01:03:37 PM »



I spoke with the electrician and the owner today and adding a 50amp outlet is a go.  Would prefer not to have to install multiple outlet-form-factors so maybe a twist lock and then provide an adapter to 14-50?


Where will that adapter be the first time you need it in two years?  A second form factor is a breeze while the electrician is standing there with his tools.
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Steve Swaffer

Brian Jojade

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Re: Venue remodel: Power
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2021, 11:34:52 AM »

Where will that adapter be the first time you need it in two years?  A second form factor is a breeze while the electrician is standing there with his tools.

+1

If you can cover the basic potential connections people want without any adaptors, that's the ideal scenario.

You haven't specified yet though if you're dealing with single phase or 3 phase power.  If you have 3 phase power, having connections available for the single phase distros as well as the 3 phase distros would be the cat's meow.  Now you're covered for anyone that may stroll into the venue and need to tie in.
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Brian Jojade

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Venue remodel: Power
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2021, 11:34:52 AM »


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