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[Ken Weaver]

Hello Everyone,

I am looking for a bit of advice regarding crossover set points. We operate a small bar and have a DJ two nights a week. Historically, he has run 2 zlx15p's full range and filled in the low end with a borrowed Mackie 12" sub. This setup actually sounded pretty good but we were frequently hitting the limit on the tops.

Last weekend the Mackie sub woofer was needed else where so I quickly ran to GC and picked up a EV ELX200-18p. I set it up using the ZLX-15p top crossover settings and set the zlx15ps sub settings to Elx200-18sp thinking it would sound great. Unfortunately, the EV sub just really couldn't keep up. The tops were not hitting their limits any more but the 80-100hz punch just felt absent. We don't have room for two subs so I went back and ordered the only higher output sub I could find in stock which happened to be the VRX918sp.

The only crossover settings in the VRX are 80 and 120hz. They don't recommend using the 120hz unless you have an active crossover which we don't at the moment. Unfortunately, the ZLX15p's really start to drop off around 90hz. So I guess the question is do I buy an active crossover and cross them at 100hz and use the 120hz setting in the sub or should I just use the built in DSP and set the tops to HP at 80hz and try to boost the low end on the tops using the built in low eq?  I am not opposed to using an active crossover but I do prefer to keep things as simple as possible in this environment.

I appreciate any feedback you might have.

[Paul G. OBrien]

Use 80hz on the tops but don't bother boosting the lowend them, it won't do much and may just put them back into limiting.

[Ken Weaver]

Use 80hz on the tops but don't bother boosting the lowend them, it won't do much and may just put them back into limiting.

Thank you Paul. We'll try that. Hopefully the one VRX will keep up with the two tops.

[Paul G. OBrien]

It's odd that an 18" sub didn't produce as much punch as a 12", did you put it in the exact same position in the room?

[Chris Grimshaw]

Sounds like the 15" tops were running wide open in the first situation, and then running highpassed in the 2nd situation. In that case, it should be no surprise that the 15"s had more headroom with the 18" sub added.

Now that the VRX sub is in play, I think I'd try the crossover settings both ways on the sub, and go with whatever sounds best. There are only a few switch combinations to try out, and I expect decent results with at least one combination.

Chris

[Ken Weaver]

Thank you all for the suggestions. Super helpful. We have been running the VRX sub crossed at 80hz and hp the tops at 80hz and this sounded surprisingly good for such inexpensive tops. One vrx918sp was a nice match for the two little ZLX15's and the whole system was decently loud for a small bar.

We have since upgraded the tops to JBL SRX815's and have them dialed back a bit to match the sub output. Given that the sub is fairly low profile we also turned it on its side and put it up against the wall which also seemed to help quite a bit.

In retrospect I kinda wish I had gone with a passive EAW SBX220 and some JFX tops but this is fairly simple to set up and sounds good enough without a lot of fuss. Thanks again

[Scott Holtzman]

Thank you all for the suggestions. Super helpful. We have been running the VRX sub crossed at 80hz and hp the tops at 80hz and this sounded surprisingly good for such inexpensive tops. One vrx918sp was a nice match for the two little ZLX15's and the whole system was decently loud for a small bar.

We have since upgraded the tops to JBL SRX815's and have them dialed back a bit to match the sub output. Given that the sub is fairly low profile we also turned it on its side and put it up against the wall which also seemed to help quite a bit.

In retrospect I kinda wish I had gone with a passive EAW SBX220 and some JFX tops but this is fairly simple to set up and sounds good enough without a lot of fuss. Thanks again

The VRX and SRX should be a really nice combo.  The ZLX was a bit on the weak side top wise.


Either top speaker should be high passed. Distortion increases with the square of excursion.  Excursion is at it's highest at the lowest end of the range.  Neither the SRX nor the ZLX have meaningful output at the low end.  Don't overlap the sub and main output.  Let the sub do it's job. 


The next step to tune it up would be a DBX drive rack processor.  It will have presets for these speakers but more important you can match the phase of the sub to the mains.  The phase changes based on location.  Listeners are more sensitive to phase errors than frequency so getting the phase tuned is critical.  This will assure all frequencies arrive at the listeners at the same time.  Clarity is improved. 


Sounds like you are on a great path.  Wrap it up with the processor.  What mixer are you using?

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