Sound Reinforcement - Forums for Live Sound Professionals - Your Displayed Name Must Be Your Real Full Name To Post In The Live Sound Forums > AC Power and Grounding

We saw this in a ballroom this weekend and... have questions.

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Steve-White:
The second picture of the panel is a concern.  Not even close to code compliant.  Grounding panel with a lug is not kosher.  I would expect a ground buss bar.  Double lugging the two grounds a big no-no and a huge no-no for a panel ground.

Third picture panel was installed by Jethro Bodine Electric.  Moron didn't even use the bottom of the lugs for the output - double lugged everything.  Just shove the wires anywhere they fit - no big deal - don't worry about it.

I've seen worse, but not by much.

Stephen Swaffer:
"Double lugging" may actually be acceptable, though it is impossible to tell in these pictures.  Whether or not it is acceptable depends entirely on the UL listing of the lugs-usually stamped on the side they will indicate the size/number of wires that are acceptable.  The way these look and are used, the only one that "might" be acceptable is the grounding lug.  Mind you that that means code compliant-not necessarily best practice.

The worst problem I see in the last picture(outside of lack of proper overcurrent protection-which for a 15 amp receptacle is no more than 20 amps)?  No ground bonding.  While conduit may be an acceptable grounding method (barring concentric knockouts among other restrictions), generally if a grounding conductor is present, the box must be bonded to it.

Steve-White:
I've been out of the trade for a long time - but, would put some serious cash that grounding a sub panel needs to be done on a ground bus bar.  I would also doubt double-lugging any ground connections inside a can meet NEC requirements.

Agree, even if the lugs were rated that it would never be considered as a best practice.  Pig-tailing terminations at devices wasn't called out to meet code, but the shops I worked at all did it anyway as a best practice.  Pig-tailing, bonding, grounding was all done during the rough-in so inspector could see everything except finish.

Scott Holtzman:

--- Quote from: Tim Weaver on August 30, 2021, 02:49:03 PM ---This is a situation where they "did it right" solution was put in at some point. The disconnect, the buss bars in a seperate box with knockouts. This is awseome.

What happened was, some group came in and didn't have a distro. The house electrician threw some quad boxes in there to get through that gig, and they were just never taken out. Now you have 20 amp receptacles fused at 100 amps. Seems like a recipe for some spectacular fireworks for me!

--- End quote ---


I think you are exactly right, Bring your distro and tails, rock and roll.  I think some of the heavy hitters commenting are use to cali connectors and stuff done right.  In the middle ground this is a dream come true.  Don't tell anybody but I have 4 or 5 different style 3 phase breakers in my box and I still do hot taps.  "Hey you really need all 4 fryers going?" 

Steve-White:
Well yeah, check the line, pigtail in the distro and rock and roll.

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