ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Electro Voice ETX Series: Data Sheet Disparity?  (Read 1885 times)

Peter J. Curtis

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
Electro Voice ETX Series: Data Sheet Disparity?
« on: August 26, 2021, 02:05:33 PM »

To preface, I have little experience with the ETX line but I know the parts are the same as the Tour X, essentially making the ETX line a powered and redone version of the Tour X, except for the ETX 18SP which uses the Phoenix driver.

My question is regarding the data sheets posted on Electro Voice's site. It was brought to my attention that on the second page of the data sheet, where the frequency response graphs are, that the ETX 35P only has an advantage over the ETX 15P from about 700Hz-1000Hz.

Now I know the main difference is that the ETX 35P can be splayed given its 60/40 coverage and its 3-way design. Thus, it's easy to argue why the ETX 35P is probably a touch less loud (the difference is probably not noticeable in real world usage), but when comparing the ETX 10P and ETX 12P graphs, the ETX 10P actually looks like the better choice, when one has a sub. But honestly, I probably wouldn't run any of the ETX tops without a sub because the woofers are not of the same caliber to be run without a sub as something like the ZXa5 (my opinion). It is just that the ZX line is at the end of its life and will, most likely, be discontinued shortly.

So my question is: Should I recommend the ETX 35P and ETX 15P for DJs? My guess, at the moment, is that the ETX 15P is the most lackluster of the product line and that the ETX 35P is for scalability for larger events and probably not something for DJs unless they are doing large events (in geometrical size, not people). I am honestly failing to understand the use case for the ETX 15P, or even the ETX 12P, because the ETX 10P looks like the most economical choice since, I believe, a sub is mandatory with this line. I am hoping someone with real experience using these cabinets can explain and hopefully provide a use case for the ETX 15P (maybe fills?). The reason why I'm stuck pushing for the ETX is because of client preference and they want to stick with EV and want powered. Also, side note, I was hoping EV would just make the QRx line powered but we have what we have.
Logged

Paul G. OBrien

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1317
Re: Electro Voice ETX Series: Data Sheet Disparity?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2021, 08:12:14 PM »

So my question is: Should I recommend the ETX 35P and ETX 15P for DJs?
Absolutely not.

I am honestly failing to understand the use case for the ETX 15P, or even the ETX 12P, because the ETX 10P looks like the most economical choice since,
In what way? Simply cost?

I believe, a sub is mandatory with this line.
IMO.. subs are manditory for DJs in particular, and given that there is no point at all to carry a top box with a 15" driver. But there are DJ applications where a single "fullrange" box is desired...like cocktail area coverage or as fills in the main room, and to that end the 12" will do a better job than the 10".

I own a bunch of EVs new powered boxed(EKX and ZLX) and have used much of the ETX line, and I'm a sound an lighting provider that caters to wedding/corp events DJs primarily.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2021, 08:19:35 PM by Paul G. OBrien »
Logged

Peter J. Curtis

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
Re: Electro Voice ETX Series: Data Sheet Disparity?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2021, 08:30:32 PM »

Absolutely not.

That was my take as well, good to know I was on the right track.

In what way? Simply cost?

The ETX 10P spec sheet shows roughly the same SPL as the ETX 12P. Even if the 12P woofer took 2x the power, it'd only be barely audibly louder in person (but I presume it'd merely have more low end than mid). And I seriously doubt it takes >2x power. They use the same DH3 though. This is why I wanted to know the real world experience since the spec sheets seemed like they could have a disparity in actual usage. For example, I was pondering that when the 12P is crossed at, say 100hz, with a sub, would the extra power make it substantially louder than the 10P in the mids? Cost is a factor too, as the 10P is cheaper, and if it matches the 12P with a sub then it makes the 10P the better choice.

But there are DJ applications where a single "fullrange" box is desired...like cocktail area coverage or as fills in the main room, and to that end the 12" will do a better job than the 10".

I appreciate the input. When the application requires full range, as you've described, then the 12P is the choice and the 15P and 35P still make little sense for a DJ.

Thank you.
Logged

Chris Grimshaw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1789
  • Sheffield, UK
    • Grimshaw Audio
Re: Electro Voice ETX Series: Data Sheet Disparity?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2021, 05:05:36 AM »


 IMO.. subs are manditory for DJs in particular, and given that there is no point at all to carry a top box with a 15" driver.

Just a quick FWIW that I mostly agree, but did run some custom 15" 2-way boxes for a while that did the business. They were EV DH1a + Beyma 15P1200Nd drivers. ie, a chunky compression driver and a high-power subwoofer sharing a box. They were heavy and very power-hungry, but were flat to below 50Hz and got usefully loud.

My current speakers are smaller, lighter and louder. Not as much bass, but that's what subwoofers are for.

Chris
Logged
Sheffield-based sound engineering.
www.grimshawaudio.com

Paul G. OBrien

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1317
Re: Electro Voice ETX Series: Data Sheet Disparity?
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2021, 11:00:04 AM »

The ETX 10P spec sheet shows roughly the same SPL as the ETX 12P. Even if the 12P woofer took 2x the power, it'd only be barely audibly louder in person (but I presume it'd merely have more low end than mid).
Yes the 12 has more lowend output. Typically a larger driver will have a slight SPL advantage over a smaller driver.. all else being the same, but of course that is never the case. Here it appears the EV didn't even try to get much lowend out of the 10" box so the midband advantage the 12 should have disappeared.

For example, I was pondering that when the 12P is crossed at, say 100hz, with a sub, would the extra power make it substantially louder than the 10P in the mids? Cost is a factor too, as the 10P is cheaper, and if it matches the 12P with a sub then it makes the 10P the better choice.
All these boxes get louder before the onset of limiting when highpassed over subs, but that doesn't change the relative performance achievable between boxes. I think the 10p would make for a super compact FOH system with a 15" sub but the 12p is a better swiss army knife.
Logged

Luke Geis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2354
    • Owner of Endever Music Production's
Re: Electro Voice ETX Series: Data Sheet Disparity?
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2021, 06:39:06 PM »

The whole idea that the 60x40 will splay better than the conventional 90* is a misnomer. The coverage specs are only nominal and really only pertain to the frequencies the horn/CD portion of the speaker produces. All typical speakers will be essentially omnidirectional below about 500hz. How directional it is above 500hz is mostly dependent upon how the box is made and how low in frequency the horn goes. Most conventional speakers have a crossover point that sets between 1.2khz and 1.9khz. The stated coverage specs will likely only be reliable down to around that frequency.

What I'm leading up to is that the physical size of the box will make ANY splay angle you think you have to work with not truly usable or practical. Any distance between two physical drivers centers that are more than 1/4 of a wavelength apart will not effectively couple. In the case of a 1khz, you would have a 1ft long wavelength, so the speaker's centers would have to be 3" apart or less to properly couple. Anything beyond that and you WILL have destructive interference. So as you can see, even with a tighter horn dispersion pattern, splaying your speakers is not going to stop the problem. Although it will make the issue less apparent because you can use less splay angle between the two boxes.

BUTTTTT, the 35P is a physically larger box, so there goes any advantage for that idea.

From a practical performance standpoint, the 35P is not much more than a regular 15" speaker with an additional high passed 15" speaker used to increase the low end a little. But the speaker and the box don't allow for much lower frequency output, and due to lack of additional power, nor does it allow for much additional output in relation. So you just end up with a bigger speaker that has only marginal low-end extension and a little additional output. The question then becomes what is the use of that resultant frequency response if linear is what we are after?

What I am ultimately getting at is that you should buy a speaker that meets a design goal. You certainly don't want to buy one simply because it has slightly better specs than another version of itself. A 3db difference in output has never ruined or made a difference in the quality of a show. 5hz of extra low-end extension has never made a show that much better. Being able to put the speaker where you need it, having a speaker that gets louder than you need it to, and having a speaker that produces the frequency response you need is the end game goal. The 35P and other dual 15" quasi three-way designs are not ideal candidates for much. the smaller you can go and still meet all your requirements is a more ideal plan.
Logged
I don't understand how you can't hear yourself

Peter J. Curtis

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 15
Re: Electro Voice ETX Series: Data Sheet Disparity?
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2021, 10:18:42 PM »

The whole idea that the 60x40 will splay better than the conventional 90* is a misnomer.

Interesting. I remember that the Electro Voice ZX series had the CB5 array rigging, so I naturally assumed that the 60/40 coverage allowed for better geometrical coverage. I don't deal with MI boxes very often, as the systems I work with are mainly scalable for the geometric size of the event. It is nice to know that the splay is a misnomer - this is, however, not the case for arrays. I think I missed that part and assumed that the ETX 35P was "arrayable" via splaying like people do with the 3 way SRX boxes on top of the SRX 828 subs. I feel like so many people get that wrong as well as the fact that they talk about the number of attendees rather than the actual size of the event, which is what matters - the amount of attendees is mostly irrelevant. Always love learning new stuff though!

I've used 15's mainly for graduation events as fills, or as monitors for bands, but never really dug into the DJ scene so that's why I posed the question here. I just haven't seen many DJs with enough "rig for the gig" when it comes to large events, unless they're working for a larger company.

To ditto what Chris said, I have had 15 cabinets that can run without a sub. I mentioned in a prior comment in this thread that the ZXa5 is such a cab. So they do exist, but the woofer in the ZXa5 is an anomaly. I'm surprised they even put in there. It's also fairly light compared to the cabinet Chris was referring to.
Logged

David Morison

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 758
  • Aberdeen, Scotland
Re: Electro Voice ETX Series: Data Sheet Disparity?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2021, 03:24:09 AM »

From a practical performance standpoint, the 35P is not much more than a regular 15" speaker with an additional high passed 15" speaker used to increase the low end a little.

Except it's not.

Single 15 up to 700Hz, Horn loaded 6.5 700-2900Hz, 1.25 HF from there on up.

While it is true that the mid horn still only gives pattern control into that mid-hundreds of Hz range, that'll still be more pattern control than the 15P with it's crossover from 15 to HF just over a octave higher.

Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Electro Voice ETX Series: Data Sheet Disparity?
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2021, 03:24:09 AM »


Pages: [1]   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.028 seconds with 20 queries.