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Author Topic: Another Placement Question  (Read 531 times)

Mark Norgren

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Another Placement Question
« on: August 24, 2021, 08:59:13 AM »

We have been playing a lot of outdoor festivals this summer.  I have found that when we are playing on an elevated stage, the best placement for my four KW181's has been in a cube dead center.  The four placed together eliminated any phase cancelling and worked extremely well.  Placing two on each side just presented problems for even disbursement, but looked nice.  We have another street dance coming up with just a tent, no elevated stage, and I'm wondering if placing four on one side of the tent would be the preferred placement?  Just not sure how it would look and sound for the crowd.  I'm sure a lot of you have the same issues.  When possible, four dead center.  When not possible, what are your suggestions for a four sub placement?  TIA
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Another Placement Question
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2021, 10:47:44 AM »

There are bigger fish to fry in a tent.  How you stack/place the subs are the least of the problems.

The fetish over 'power alley' is one I don't fathom... and not looking at you, personally, Mark... but my experience has been that many acts are sensitive to excessive LF content on stage from subs centered in front of the stage.  YMMV and all that, and some acts will LIKE the subbage on the deck, so there is that...

It's all a series of compromises, picked to best fit the Situation du Jour.
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Mark Norgren

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Re: Another Placement Question
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2021, 08:19:27 AM »

Thanks Tim.  I understand that I have a lot to learn about sound reinforcement.  It seems to be a moving target.  I run a Midas M32R from stage and that learning curve is still on the incline.  Not really sure what this next setup will hold.  I may just go with two subs on each side and call it good.  Getting a good mix is still my primary concern.  At a street dance, people usually move around, so I guess we have that going for us! 
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John Schalk

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Re: Another Placement Question
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2021, 09:48:58 AM »

There is one local band that places a pair of powered subs in the center for outdoor shows even when there isn't a stage.  It looks really strange to me, but the band must be okay with it, so don't be afraid to think outside of the box :) 

To Tim's point, when I put my powered 21" subs on the ground in the center of the town's folding metal stage, it puts A LOT of subbage onto the stage.  Mostly the band's don't seem to mind, pop/rock etc, but it sure isn't helping them hear their wedges.  So yeah, definitely some compromises to made and I hate mixing in a tent.
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Mal Brown

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Re: Another Placement Question
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2021, 10:21:49 AM »

In my neck of the woods I get many new grass bands.  Rock 'n Roll with traditional bluegrass instruments often plus drum kit...  loud, lot's of upright bass and kick.   The sub wash on stage is just not workable.  I was hoping for that maybe 3 setup as cardiod would solve that but...  the stage enclosing part seems to have scotched that thought...  so I'll be back to 2 per side for the most part.

I have 2 venues where I stack 3 KW-181 to one side.  In one case it preserves access to a serving station and I'm there to sell beer so...  In the other it defeats a strange resonance anomaly.  Funny but I work that place 1 or 2 times a season but I attend quite a few shows there.  I'm the only guy that appears to have thought of that.  All the other folks lock step on subs to the sides...
« Last Edit: August 25, 2021, 10:31:40 AM by Mal Brown »
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Another Placement Question
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2021, 08:44:39 AM »

In my neck of the woods I get many new grass bands.  Rock 'n Roll with traditional bluegrass instruments often plus drum kit...  loud, lot's of upright bass and kick.   The sub wash on stage is just not workable.  I was hoping for that maybe 3 setup as cardiod would solve that but...  the stage enclosing part seems to have scotched that thought...  so I'll be back to 2 per side for the most part.

I have 2 venues where I stack 3 KW-181 to one side.  In one case it preserves access to a serving station and I'm there to sell beer so...  In the other it defeats a strange resonance anomaly.  Funny but I work that place 1 or 2 times a season but I attend quite a few shows there.  I'm the only guy that appears to have thought of that.  All the other folks lock step on subs to the sides...
I did a show a few years ago, that was a wide variety of acts, from traditional bluegrass to progressive jazz/rock etc.

I did a setup using 6 subs (not for output, but for cancellation).  2 on each side in cardioid, and 2 in cardioid out in front of the stage.

It took 4 DSP channels (2 for sides, and 2 for center), and with a bit of playing in the models, it appeared as if I would get good sub cancellation on stage.

I did my model from the size of the stage from the previous year, and it when setup it did not work as well as I wanted.  Then I realized that the stage was a different size this year, so I went back to the model and readjusted my timing.

With a little tweaking/measuring on site, it was amazing.  When you walked on stage, it felt as if the subs were not even on, just the low end from the mains.

It can be done, but you have to have enough physical room (I had plenty in front of the stage for that cardioid setup to work), and enough DSP and knowledge of measurement and setup.

General ideas often don't work as well as a properly done setup.
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Re: Another Placement Question
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2021, 08:44:39 AM »


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