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Author Topic: Eclipse Audio FIR Designer  (Read 4982 times)

Helge A Bentsen

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Eclipse Audio FIR Designer
« on: August 11, 2021, 06:19:54 PM »

Any experience with FIR Designer from Eclipse Audio?
https://eclipseaudio.com/fir-designer/

I want to write some custom FIR for a speaker using Powersoft amps. Tested the demo now, it's pretty easy to load a trace from Smaart and work on it, looks like FIR Designer can do all I need (and lot's more).
The plan is to do EQ, xover and some phase correction in a loudspeaker preset file for a 3-way speaker.


« Last Edit: August 11, 2021, 06:23:17 PM by Helge A Bentsen »
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: Eclipse Audio FIR Designer
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2021, 09:10:42 AM »

Any experience with FIR Designer from Eclipse Audio?
https://eclipseaudio.com/fir-designer/

I want to write some custom FIR for a speaker using Powersoft amps. Tested the demo now, it's pretty easy to load a trace from Smaart and work on it, looks like FIR Designer can do all I need (and lot's more).
The plan is to do EQ, xover and some phase correction in a loudspeaker preset file for a 3-way speaker.

I've been using Fir Designer since the first version was released in 2016.  Just checked my PC, and found nearly 2000 FIR files I've built with it since then...yikes!
I import traces from Smaart (or REW & ARTA), and literally a few minutes later have a FIR file to check out. It's easy, fast, and accurate...it rocks.

On versions, the one-time purchase of 'FIR Designer' makes sense to me....maybe if I had (alot) more dough, i'd get one of the subscriptions.
I've needed unlimited windows due to the workflow habits I've developed, which 'FIR Designer' has.
For your 3-way, Creator EX would handle a 3-way fine, with its 4 window capacity. But you'd lose some important basic functionality like unlimited IIR eqs, unlimited Auto Mag & Phase bands, etc.
 
That gets to my only real complaint with the whole FirD product set...i can see differentiating the price of the versions due to multi-way support, advanced integration with  processors and amps, even with advanced features like Second View, and Wavelets, etc. 
But i think cutting out some basic functionality with 'count limitations' from the lower priced versions, is a mistake that precludes broader adoption in the marketplace.
(Sorry for the swerve, but i really like FirD, and would love to see more folks jump on it.)

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Nathan Riddle

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Re: Eclipse Audio FIR Designer
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2021, 04:49:04 PM »

That gets to my only real complaint with the whole FirD product set...i can see differentiating the price of the versions due to multi-way support, advanced integration with  processors and amps, even with advanced features like Second View, and Wavelets, etc. 
But i think cutting out some basic functionality with 'count limitations' from the lower priced versions, is a mistake that precludes broader adoption in the marketplace.
(Sorry for the swerve, but i really like FirD, and would love to see more folks jump on it.)

Whole heartedly agree!

I play around with the demo from time-to-time. And I'd buy the creator? (cheaper) version if it weren't for the arbitrary limitations.

The advanced features I don't need. But I do want it for a simple import/create-fir/export process...too bad.
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Eclipse Audio FIR Designer
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2021, 06:37:55 PM »

I use RePhase, which is free. No automatic stuff, and the interface isn't amazing, but it's worked well for me.

Chris
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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: Eclipse Audio FIR Designer
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2021, 05:30:44 AM »

I use RePhase, which is free. No automatic stuff, and the interface isn't amazing, but it's worked well for me.

Chris

Can RePhase export to Powersoft?
I looked into it a couple of years ago and at that point I couldn't figure out how to export in a format Armonia accepted.
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Eclipse Audio FIR Designer
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2021, 08:54:09 AM »

Can RePhase export to Powersoft?
I looked into it a couple of years ago and at that point I couldn't figure out how to export in a format Armonia accepted.

Yep!

Tell RePhase to export as a .csv, and Armonia+ can import that. Ensure 48kHz sample rate, and maximum of 2048 taps.

I did just try to import a 5000-tap filter, but Armonia+ rejected the file.


RePhase lets you take manual control of a lot of stuff (windowing, impulse centering), which can be useful for advanced users.

Chris
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: Eclipse Audio FIR Designer
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2021, 11:14:45 AM »

Yep!

Tell RePhase to export as a .csv, and Armonia+ can import that. Ensure 48kHz sample rate, and maximum of 2048 taps.

I did just try to import a 5000-tap filter, but Armonia+ rejected the file.


RePhase lets you take manual control of a lot of stuff (windowing, impulse centering), which can be useful for advanced users.

Chris


Cool Chris, i was waiting to see what you'd say.   Wasn't sure if Armonia needed some funky custom stuff done to a csv file.  Glad it doesn't.
(I hate it when manufacturers use a proprietary format, like Linea Research and their sfi files for example ....)

RePhase is awesome donateware. Best way to get into FIR imo. The full manual implementation is a heck of a "learn from the ground up tool".  And an easy one to use.

Between FirD for automated work, and rePhase for manual, i don't know what else one would ever need for building FIR files.
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Timo Beckman

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Re: Eclipse Audio FIR Designer
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2021, 03:57:45 PM »

Hi Helge

Yes i have some experience with FIR Designer.

For 3 way stuff i would recommend going for the M version. You only have to take a onax measurement and a bunch of of-axis traces and load those n to the supplementary response window to see what the corrections to to on axis cause to the other mic positions.

I try to stay away from the auto mag/phase stuff specially using the high/none smoothing settings....Looks good on the onax mic but can mess up al other positions.
Loading the FIR to powersoft is no problem since it's 1 of the many export formats.


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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: Eclipse Audio FIR Designer
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2021, 05:18:00 PM »

Hi Helge

Yes i have some experience with FIR Designer.

For 3 way stuff i would recommend going for the M version. You only have to take a onax measurement and a bunch of of-axis traces and load those n to the supplementary response window to see what the corrections to to on axis cause to the other mic positions.

I try to stay away from the auto mag/phase stuff specially using the high/none smoothing settings....Looks good on the onax mic but can mess up al other positions.
Loading the FIR to powersoft is no problem since it's 1 of the many export formats.

Thanks Timo.
To be honest, I've not used too many off-axis measurements so far in my speaker projects, might be room for improvements.
My usual mode is placing a mic on axis, one at the -6dB point for the horn and 1 or 2 in-between.

How many positions do you aim for and how far off from on-axis do you go for a 90 degree speaker?
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Mark Wilkinson

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Re: Eclipse Audio FIR Designer
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2021, 09:46:07 PM »

Hi Timo, different strokes  :).......I'm a big user of FirD's auto mag/phase.
My process is to find the corrections that hold up for both on-axis and off-axis. (you know, true minimum phase response variations).

When i auto-correct on-ax on a driver-by-driver basis,  the majority of corrections made on-axis have held up well for off-axis too.
However, it's depended on the the quality of the speaker's acoustic design, and how well behaved the drivers were both for in-band smoothness and out-of-band room to work.
If any of those factors were marginal/crappy, auto results have been tough to make good off-axis.
 
I've tried to make good acoustic box designs using good drivers, so auto mag/phase has worked very well for me most of the time.

I generally take polars in 10 degree increments out to rated pattern and one more step beyond. When polars spaz out in particular frequency ranges, i just soften or drop correction in that range.  (which is why multiple bands auto mag/phase are needed).

If i wasn't going to use FirD's auto capability, I'm not sure why I'd purchase it.  I mean, if i'm going to do everything manually, I'd just stick with rePhase that is free.
But again, that's just me...


Oh, have you had a chance to compare the multiple mic predictions with actual measurements?
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Eclipse Audio FIR Designer
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2021, 09:46:07 PM »


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