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Author Topic: Connecting Behringer P16-M to Shure PSM 300 questions  (Read 477 times)

Terry Tarpening

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Re: Connecting Behringer P16-M to Shure PSM 300 questions
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2021, 09:22:52 AM »

None of the p16 outputs are balanced.

Just do what shure said.  Using a ts into a trs just shorts pin 3 to ground.  No problem as long as your run isnít too long and/or in a noisy rf environment.  Without looking it up I would expect that the unbalanced L/R outputs are line level and will be less likely to encounter interference than the headphone output.  If you run long enough that you get interference that isnít there with a short run then just balance the signal with a di or other transformer before sending it long distance.

Thanks! Define long? :) 30 foot cables to long? Iíve read you donít want them really over 20 foot long. I just donít want two separate cable lengths for different venues so I just use 30 foot. And about using a DI, would I have to find one with two inputs and outputs or does it matter? Just wanting a stereo feed is all.
Looking at Sweetwater, Radial makes the stereo JDI with dual inputs and outputs. But, would I need a passive or active one?

Honestly think it would just be easier to do away with the P16-M and run my wireless direct into IEM XR18 Aux with short balanced cables and use my bass preamp with two outs on it (one for IEM, one for FOH) to adjust in ear bass tone and use the app to control my volumes with fadersÖ.. wonít have to mess with long cable runs etcÖ..
This is how I have it setup for now without having a rehearsal yet to test it out. Just trying to think ahead if I donít care for the tones/adjustments  since Iíve been using the P16-M.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 09:58:09 AM by Terry Tarpening »
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Russell Ault

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Re: Connecting Behringer P16-M to Shure PSM 300 questions
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2021, 04:05:39 PM »

{...} Honestly think it would just be easier to do away with the P16-M and run my wireless direct into IEM XR18 Aux with short balanced cables {...} and use the app to control my volumes with fadersÖ.. {...}

If that works for you (and you don't mind making adjustments with an app instead of with knobs) then this is almost certainly the easiest option. Unlike some more recent products, the P16 series wasn't really designed with wireless IEMs in mind.

Another would be to keep the PSM300 TX near the P16-M (instead of in a rack), which is probably fine if you're the only person using wireless IEMs (and the P16-M isn't near any wireless instrument RXs) but it's not a solution that scales very well.

As for "how far is too far" for an unbalanced line-level signal, there's really no good answer since it depends a lot on the circuit design of the devices involved (ClearCom, for example, is unbalanced, yet a properly-designed system will happily run over hundreds of feet virtually noise-free). In your case the easiest thing to do would be to get some 30' cables and give it a try in a variety of environments. If you do run into noise problems it's likely that a pair of ISO transformers at the P16-M would solve them, but you might run into problems using DIs instead (which tend to have mic-level outputs).

-Russ
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Terry Tarpening

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Re: Connecting Behringer P16-M to Shure PSM 300 questions
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2021, 06:25:14 PM »

If that works for you (and you don't mind making adjustments with an app instead of with knobs) then this is almost certainly the easiest option. Unlike some more recent products, the P16 series wasn't really designed with wireless IEMs in mind.

Another would be to keep the PSM300 TX near the P16-M (instead of in a rack), which is probably fine if you're the only person using wireless IEMs (and the P16-M isn't near any wireless instrument RXs) but it's not a solution that scales very well.

As for "how far is too far" for an unbalanced line-level signal, there's really no good answer since it depends a lot on the circuit design of the devices involved (ClearCom, for example, is unbalanced, yet a properly-designed system will happily run over hundreds of feet virtually noise-free). In your case the easiest thing to do would be to get some 30' cables and give it a try in a variety of environments. If you do run into noise problems it's likely that a pair of ISO transformers at the P16-M would solve them, but you might run into problems using DIs instead (which tend to have mic-level outputs).

-Russ

Thanks.
I built us an IEM rig so weíre all on IEMís. Iíd have to keep the P16-M on top of the rack, next to the FOH mixer and go back and make my adjustments. Rack has no room left for extra gear. Only thing I know left to do if I donít prefer using the app etc.
i didnít say before but I have two setups, amp with cab, pedals and DI,  and a pedalboard with bass preamp, other pedals to go ampless on most gigs. Iíd have to have the P16-M back and forth between these setups so the easier thing is to just keep it at the rack. As far as the line level vs mic thing, the Shure has line or mic adjustments on the back of the unit.
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Russell Ault

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Re: Connecting Behringer P16-M to Shure PSM 300 questions
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2021, 07:47:40 PM »

{...} As far as the line level vs mic thing, the Shure has line or mic adjustments on the back of the unit.

Well, not quite: the line/aux switch selects been +4 dBu and -10 dBV (i.e. the difference between a pro audio line-level signal and a consumer audio line-level signal), which is just less than 12 dB. Even on the -10 dBV setting a mic-level signal is going to be pretty quiet.

-Russ
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Terry Tarpening

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Re: Connecting Behringer P16-M to Shure PSM 300 questions
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2021, 08:54:52 PM »

Well, not quite: the line/aux switch selects been +4 dBu and -10 dBV (i.e. the difference between a pro audio line-level signal and a consumer audio line-level signal), which is just less than 12 dB. Even on the -10 dBV setting a mic-level signal is going to be pretty quiet.

-Russ

Then itís sounding more and more to forego the P16-M and settle with the app and bass preamp or amp adjustments onlyÖ..can you give examples of ISO transformer? Iíve looked they have input and output ones, Jensen transformers etc. Also there is a 1/4Ē TS male to 1/4Ē TRS female converter with built in 1:10 transformer (canít attach photo apparently) that Sweetwater actually suggests on their website when searching TS vs TRS. Do not know what I should be looking at?
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 09:06:19 PM by Terry Tarpening »
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Erik Jerde

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Re: Connecting Behringer P16-M to Shure PSM 300 questions
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2021, 09:24:59 PM »

Then itís sounding more and more to forego the P16-M and settle with the app and bass preamp or amp adjustments onlyÖ..can you give examples of ISO transformer? Iíve looked they have input and output ones, Jensen transformers etc. Also there is a 1/4Ē TS male to 1/4Ē TRS female converter with built in 1:10 transformer (canít attach photo apparently) that Sweetwater actually suggests on their website when searching TS vs TRS. Do not know what I should be looking at?

You want to avoid the 1:10 transformers because thatís going to change your level significantly.  Thatís what was being referred to as the problem with using a DI.  Something like the whirlwind iso 1 would be better because itís intended purpose is isolation and balancing not taking an instrument output to mic level.
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Terry Tarpening

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Re: Connecting Behringer P16-M to Shure PSM 300 questions
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2021, 09:39:55 PM »

You want to avoid the 1:10 transformers because thatís going to change your level significantly.  Thatís what was being referred to as the problem with using a DI.  Something like the whirlwind iso 1 would be better because itís intended purpose is isolation and balancing not taking an instrument output to mic level.

Thanks Iíll look into that!

It appears the ISO 2 can do both outputs of the P16-M in one box.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 09:48:05 PM by Terry Tarpening »
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Terry Tarpening

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Re: Connecting Behringer P16-M to Shure PSM 300 questions
¬ę Reply #16 on: August 01, 2021, 09:39:55 PM ¬Ľ


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