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Author Topic: ultra low sub sound  (Read 1230 times)

JeffreyHague

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Re: ultra low sub sound
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2021, 11:20:29 AM »

I have seen several band lives (Chevelle and Alter Bridge specifically) that invoke a really low "something", very sparingly in their show. Low enough in frequency to shake the venue. Does anyone know what that is? It is not kick, bass guitar, etc.  I is so low, it is not even a note, but when unleashed, your body shakes.

I want it!!! Probably can't afford it.

Thanks.

1st youll need some of these:

http://www.mccauley.com/product_overview.cfm?ID=2275

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Doug Fowler

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Re: ultra low sub sound
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2021, 12:15:16 PM »

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Steve-White

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Re: ultra low sub sound
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2021, 12:43:31 PM »

1st youll need some of these:

http://www.mccauley.com/product_overview.cfm?ID=2275

McCauley is definitely out there and has some great stuff.  Back in the 80's my former partner and I had a McCauley dealership - we were doing mostly DJ systems back then.

Always somewhat of a Dark Horse their PR style is probably the reason.  I remember when they released their first compression driver, the 6510.  Used their 18's in a few club installs and setup a few DJ-on-a-pole systems with a 15" two-way they had.  Also, used components for top-end in clubs - Horn/lens and 12's.

Matter of fact I have a McCauley 455 horn/lens on the center channel of the HT setup in my den.  Tom McCauley was a great guy to deal with.  Based upon what the 6174 18's would do, I would imagine the M421 would make some good thunder.  Way too large for my operation to move around.
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JeffreyHague

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Re: ultra low sub sound
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2021, 01:10:35 PM »

Measurement please?

F3 of 20Hz.! Quad 21", 8000W, Max cont SPL 149dB, very big, very heavy.

http://www.mccauley.com/product_specifications.cfm?ID=2275
Performance Overview    
 Class    Subwoofer
 Freq. Response (-3dB)    20Hz - 85Hz
 Power Handling (Program)    
 Low (1)    2000W
 Low (2)    2000W
 Low (3)    2000W
 Low (4)    2000W
 Max Peak SPL    
 Low    155dB
 Max Continuous SPL    
 Low    149dB
 Impedance    
 Low (1)    8Ω
 Low (2)    8Ω
 Low (3)    8Ω
 Low (4)    8Ω
 Sensitivity    
 Low    110dB
 Construction    
 Method    CNC Machined, Dadoed, Hand Finished, Rabbet
 Material    12-Ply Birch
 Finish    Procoat
 Dimensions    
 Product Dimensions    73.4in. x 23.1in. x 44in.
1864.36mm x 586.74mm x 1117.6mm
 Net Weight    498lbs.
225.85kg.
 Design Properties    
 Transportation Options    Casters, Dolly
 Hardware    
 Grill Type    Fitted Perforated Steel
 Handle Type    Handle Designed into Enclosure
 Handle Locations    Left, Right
 Suspension    Groundstack, Locking Skids
« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 01:23:59 PM by JeffreyHague »
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Tim Weaver

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Re: ultra low sub sound
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2021, 01:18:42 PM »

F3 of 20Hz.! Quad 18", 8000W, Max cont SPL 149dB, very big, very heavy.

http://www.mccauley.com/product_specifications.cfm?ID=2275
Performance Overview    
 Class    Subwoofer
 Freq. Response (-3dB)    20Hz - 85Hz
 Power Handling (Program)    
 Low (1)    2000W
 Low (2)    2000W
 Low (3)    2000W
 Low (4)    2000W
 Max Peak SPL    
 Low    155dB
 Max Continuous SPL    
 Low    149dB
 Impedance    
 Low (1)    8Ω
 Low (2)    8Ω
 Low (3)    8Ω
 Low (4)    8Ω
 Sensitivity    
 Low    110dB
 Construction    
 Method    CNC Machined, Dadoed, Hand Finished, Rabbet
 Material    12-Ply Birch
 Finish    Procoat
 Dimensions    
 Product Dimensions    73.4in. x 23.1in. x 44in.
1864.36mm x 586.74mm x 1117.6mm
 Net Weight    498lbs.
225.85kg.
 Design Properties    
 Transportation Options    Casters, Dolly
 Hardware    
 Grill Type    Fitted Perforated Steel
 Handle Type    Handle Designed into Enclosure
 Handle Locations    Left, Right
 Suspension    Groundstack, Locking Skids


Wait..... This thing is called the 421 and it uses four 18's? I feel robbed.
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JeffreyHague

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Re: ultra low sub sound
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2021, 01:20:00 PM »

McCauley is definitely out there and has some great stuff.  Back in the 80's my former partner and I had a McCauley dealership - we were doing mostly DJ systems back then.

Always somewhat of a Dark Horse their PR style is probably the reason.  I remember when they released their first compression driver, the 6510.  Used their 18's in a few club installs and setup a few DJ-on-a-pole systems with a 15" two-way they had.  Also, used components for top-end in clubs - Horn/lens and 12's.

Matter of fact I have a McCauley 455 horn/lens on the center channel of the HT setup in my den.  Tom McCauley was a great guy to deal with.  Based upon what the 6174 18's would do, I would imagine the M421 would make some good thunder.  Way too large for my operation to move around.

I built some single 18s and some single 12/2 McCauley loaded cabs back in the mid 80s and was very impressed.
And you are right, Tom McCauley was a great guy. I had been carrying some custom double 12 horns loaded with JBLs for mids and they were big and heavy. I got the op to install my rig in a smallish club and didn't need d12s and the only place to put new cabs was on the ceiling so I decided to build some small single 12/2 top cabinets. I went through the math to come up with a small ported design for the 12s but was pretty unsure of myself and 1 day I decided to call McCauley (I had heard that he had worked for JBL as a designer) and ask for advice. Tom himself answered the phone and we had nearly an hour conversation about cabinet design, drivers, etc. The upshot was he said if its a mid with subs underneath (2 Klipsch Gauss loaded single 18 folded horns under the stage) a simple closed box about 1 cubic foot would get me to 100Hz easy with those drivers. They sounded great!
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JeffreyHague

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Re: ultra low sub sound
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2021, 01:23:20 PM »


Wait..... This thing is called the 421 and it uses four 18's? I feel robbed.

My bad - typo. It is a quad 21" with 6" voice coils!

I fixed the original post - thanks!
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Art Welter

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Re: ultra low sub sound
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2021, 01:55:31 PM »

1st youll need some of these:

http://www.mccauley.com/product_overview.cfm?ID=2275
Jeffrey,

The isobaric "tapped horn" M421 gets quite loud, but does not come close to the spec sheet response claiming -10 dB at 16 Hz. Actual measured response shows the 16Hz level more than 24dB below it's 50-80 Hz response.

https://soundforums.net/community/threads/mccauley-m421-quad-21-subwoofer.1859/

Bennett Prescott's initial measurements were posted in #7, more precise ones in #17, the graph below from those. Although Bennett has been North American Sales Director for B&C loudspeakers (B&C 21" were used in the M421) he was not at the time of testing.

That said, as Riley Casey suggested, by modulating the amplitude of any subwoofer's output at very low frequencies, like using a noise gate triggered from an LFO (low frequency oscillator) operating below 20Hz, the impression of "shuddering" subsonic frequencies can be sustained without requiring the actual low frequency output.

Art

« Last Edit: August 01, 2021, 02:05:27 PM by Art Welter »
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Luke Geis

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Re: ultra low sub sound
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2021, 06:06:41 PM »

You can bring as many subs as you like, but if they're ported (most are) and tuned above 40Hz, they'll never manage that effect - ported boxes produce very little sound below their tuning frequency.

That air-shudder/whole-world-is-moving stuff happens at/below about 40Hz IME, so start with subs that have enough LF extension to manage it, and then add more to produce the desired effect.

Chris

With enough subs, you can extend the lower response a bit. With a long enough line, the coupling will extend the response perhaps enough to get you down to the upper 20's with reasonable output. Assuming you have a sub that already gets you into the 30's with any usable level. As you mention, a sub tuned and ported to 40hz may not get you there, but I contend that with the budget and the goal in mind, you will be using subs that 1) already get pretty low, 2) are going to have enough volume to make the effect work and 3) are going to have multitudes to garauntee the result.
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Bill Hornibrook

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Re: ultra low sub sound
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2021, 07:15:58 PM »

Frequencies don't have to be subsonic to give you that whole body shaking experience. Contemporary music - especially modern hip-hop - often has frequencies in the low to mid 30s, and that will do it if you have the subs to reproduce it.

Several years ago I built 21" subs utilizing B&C 6"vc drivers which have been great for DJing outdoor festivals, but most of my gigs are indoor clubs - where they have caused more problems than not. Glassware vibrating off shelves, pans falling to the floor in kitchens... probably the worst thing that's happened was when a bag of flour fell off an upper shelf and struck a chef working below. I still hear about that one from people who worked in that club.

I'm currently in an outdoor venue on Saturdays. Frequencies that low travel right through walls. There's a Fairfield Marriott a block away, and even though I'm not running that loud they've complained numerous times about low frequencies entering the hotel. After a couple of visits from the local police, I've had to brickwall at 45hz - completely eliminating any advantage of running 21" subs.

Over a year ago Art helped me out with port dimensions for B&C 18" subs. I didn't build them because I was unsure if I was even going to do anything after lockdown, but that's changed - big time.
I've just got to get off my butt and build them. They'll serve me a lot better than the 21's on the vast majority of my gigs.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: ultra low sub sound
« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2021, 07:15:58 PM »


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