ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Light/compact sub options- JTR 212pro vs Yamaha DXS15 XLF ?  (Read 604 times)

MattLeonard

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 27

Hey all - I'm looking for light/compact subs, primarily to go under  (4) db Ingenia ig4t's. I know - no replacement for displacement, and I've gleaned some good ideas from past posts. Here are my considerations/constraints.

   -I prefer (4) boxes - to allow me to have 2 smaller rigs, or double up for bigger gigs.

   -No rider requirements and I want to keep to powered boxes. Mostly I do theater, corporate, and outdoor press conferences/rallies. I'm not doing EDM events (and if I was, I'd rent bigger subs).

   -Typically 1-person crews from a small truck/van/Subaru (no ramp/lift) so I want to keep boxes under ~90lbs and compact as possible.

   -I'm generally looking at the high end of MI, or low-end of touring. Buy-once-cry-once - but I'd like to stay under $2k/box. (the JTR's are just over this)

I'm leaning towards either the JTR Captivator 212 Pro, or the Yamaha DXS15 XLF. The JTR's cost more, have a ~4 month production lead time right now, and in some dimensions are larger than the Yamaha. The amp module also seems lacking - something from their home theater line. Whereas the Yamaha provides more control, cardioid options, and DSP - its heavier but a bit more compact, with a killer warranty. I also might grab a pair of DZR12's for SOS gigs (the Ingenia's really need subs), so that would be a nice match option too.

Anything I'm missing in my chart below? Any opinions or suggestions? Thanks!
Logged

Mike Pyle

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1078
  • Santa Rosa, CA
Re: Light/compact sub options- JTR 212pro vs Yamaha DXS15 XLF ?
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2021, 10:46:15 PM »

I haven't heard one yet, but Bassboss has a new little 15" sub that might be a good option to consider.

https://www.bassboss.com/buy/bb15-powered-subwoofer/
Logged
Mike Pyle  Audiopyle Sound  707-315-6204
Dealer For: JBL, Soundcraft, Crown, dbx, AKG, Yorkville, EV, QSC, RCF, FBT, Danley Sound Labs, Fulcrum Acoustic, Tannoy, Lab Gruppen, Powersoft, Linea Research, VTC, EAW, Allen & Heath, Ashly, APB, Audix, One Systems, OnPoint Audio, Presonus, K&M, Ultimate, Global Truss, Road Ready, SKB, Gator, Radial Engineering, Turbosound, Midas, dB Technologies, American DJ, Odyssey, ProCo, Rapco, CBI, Elation, Mipro, Chauvet, Blizzard, Shure, Whirlwind, Bassboss, Yamaha, Line 6, Behringer, Whirlwind, On-Stage, more...

Peter Morris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1381
Re: Light/compact sub options- JTR 212pro vs Yamaha DXS15 XLF ?
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2021, 12:05:16 AM »

Hey all - I'm looking for light/compact subs, primarily to go under  (4) db Ingenia ig4t's. I know - no replacement for displacement, and I've gleaned some good ideas from past posts. Here are my considerations/constraints.

   -I prefer (4) boxes - to allow me to have 2 smaller rigs, or double up for bigger gigs.

   -No rider requirements and I want to keep to powered boxes. Mostly I do theater, corporate, and outdoor press conferences/rallies. I'm not doing EDM events (and if I was, I'd rent bigger subs).

   -Typically 1-person crews from a small truck/van/Subaru (no ramp/lift) so I want to keep boxes under ~90lbs and compact as possible.

   -I'm generally looking at the high end of MI, or low-end of touring. Buy-once-cry-once - but I'd like to stay under $2k/box. (the JTR's are just over this)

I'm leaning towards either the JTR Captivator 212 Pro, or the Yamaha DXS15 XLF. The JTR's cost more, have a ~4 month production lead time right now, and in some dimensions are larger than the Yamaha. The amp module also seems lacking - something from their home theater line. Whereas the Yamaha provides more control, cardioid options, and DSP - its heavier but a bit more compact, with a killer warranty. I also might grab a pair of DZR12's for SOS gigs (the Ingenia's really need subs), so that would be a nice match option too.

Anything I'm missing in my chart below? Any opinions or suggestions? Thanks!

The IG4Ts uses FIR filters; as such there is a small delay that needs to be added to your sub.

This is what the manual says

1. Select and confirm the type of associated subwoofer in the system
2. Select and confirm HpFilter, then select and confirm the desired crossover frequency
3. According to the system settings, verify the delay value recommended for the subwoofer in the SubDelay field.

To do this correctly may be a bit tricky unless you use one of dB Tech subs. I would check this out before you buy.
 

Logged

Douglas R. Allen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1351
Re: Light/compact sub options- JTR 212pro vs Yamaha DXS15 XLF ?
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2021, 10:33:45 AM »

The IG4Ts uses FIR filters; as such there is a small delay that needs to be added to your sub.

This is what the manual says

1. Select and confirm the type of associated subwoofer in the system
2. Select and confirm HpFilter, then select and confirm the desired crossover frequency
3. According to the system settings, verify the delay value recommended for the subwoofer in the SubDelay field.

To do this correctly may be a bit tricky unless you use one of dB Tech subs. I would check this out before you buy.

  As you know it really depends on the sub and speaker relationship to it. My IG4T's sitting on poles on top of my Yorkville Ls801pb's require me to set 6 ms of delay using the internal delay in the IG4T's to get in good phase response at the crossover point measured with Smaart. If the IG4T or other speakers that are used are farther than 1/4 wavelength away then delay can be set to a location but not correct everywhere. I don't see the IG4T's or IG2T's I have as having much more built in delay then any other speaker that I have used. Every sub/mid-high system should be checked and may require some alignment. That's just the nature of the beast when mix an matching and deploying speakers. If it's 2ms needed of 20ms needed to get the system in alignment they both take about the same time to measure and setup. Most (if not all?) speakers with digital processing have some delay. Not a deal breaker by any means.

Douglas R. Allen
Logged

Greg Harwood

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 72
Re: Light/compact sub options- JTR 212pro vs Yamaha DXS15 XLF ?
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2021, 05:04:05 PM »

Sent you a PM.  I have JTR 212Pro subs and they are fantastic performers.  Lightweight, easy to move, and sound great. No experience with the Yamaha subs, but I doubt they are better than the JTR subs.  Tough to go wrong with anything JTR.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2021, 05:07:19 PM by Greg Harwood »
Logged
Greg H.

Art Welter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1948
Re: Light/compact sub options- JTR 212pro vs Yamaha DXS15 XLF ?
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2021, 05:44:01 PM »

Tough to go wrong with anything JTR.
Other than a ~4 month production lead time right now...
Logged

Greg Harwood

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 72
Re: Light/compact sub options- JTR 212pro vs Yamaha DXS15 XLF ?
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2021, 06:14:37 PM »

Other than a ~4 month production lead time right now...

Yeah, that's tough.  Jeff's products are great performers though.
Logged
Greg H.

Peter Morris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1381
Re: Light/compact sub options- JTR 212pro vs Yamaha DXS15 XLF ?
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2021, 07:13:37 PM »

  As you know it really depends on the sub and speaker relationship to it. My IG4T's sitting on poles on top of my Yorkville Ls801pb's require me to set 6 ms of delay using the internal delay in the IG4T's to get in good phase response at the crossover point measured with Smaart. If the IG4T or other speakers that are used are farther than 1/4 wavelength away then delay can be set to a location but not correct everywhere. I don't see the IG4T's or IG2T's I have as having much more built in delay then any other speaker that I have used. Every sub/mid-high system should be checked and may require some alignment. That's just the nature of the beast when mix an matching and deploying speakers. If it's 2ms needed of 20ms needed to get the system in alignment they both take about the same time to measure and setup. Most (if not all?) speakers with digital processing have some delay. Not a deal breaker by any means.

Douglas R. Allen

I'm not sure how much delay the FIR filter adds (its the number of taps they have used multiplied by the sample time @ 48kHz) but there is also some additional delay resulting from the phase response caused but the reflex tuning.  If you are matching it with something like a Yorkville Ls801 you will need to add delay to your sub not the IG4T. What you have done adding delay to the sub is an alignment that is 360 out .... it will sort of work, but ...

I often mix and match the IG4T's we have with different subs.  To do that I did a time alignment using Smaart so the sub & IG4T phase & time are correctly aligned.  I have written on the back of the sub the delay needed for two differed crossover frequencies I use with the IG4T's.  Basically, dB Tech  have done this for you when you match it with their subs as I posted above.  If the OP does not use them with dB Tech Subs they will have to do this alignment.

https://www.merlijnvanveen.nl/en/study-hall/166-subwoofer-alignment-the-foolproof-relative-absolute-method

 
Logged

Sean Anderson

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 60
Re: Light/compact sub options- JTR 212pro vs Yamaha DXS15 XLF ?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2021, 09:58:11 AM »

Other than a ~4 month production lead time right now...

If you can wait, the 212ps will certainly be louder, lower, and more articulate. I would wager 2 of them have more output than 4 of fhe Yamahas. But 4 months is hard. I ordered 2 of JTR's new dual 12 tops in May on a 2 month lead time. I am glad I ordered when I did.
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Light/compact sub options- JTR 212pro vs Yamaha DXS15 XLF ?
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2021, 09:58:11 AM »


Pages: [1]   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.052 seconds with 17 queries.