ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Down

Author Topic: No High pass filters, next best options parametric and graphic eq?  (Read 1526 times)

Doug Fowler

  • Member since May 1995, 2nd poster on original LAB, moderator on and off since 1997, now running TurboMOD v1.826
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1979
  • Saint Louis, MO USA
Re: No High pass filters, next best options parametric and graphic eq?
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2021, 10:08:57 PM »

Transport is dealer's choice (i.e. it doesn't have to be analogue), but under the traditional model the answer to your question is "yes". The job of the console (and stage boxes, etc.) is to collect all the signals and mix them together, while the job of the PA (including the processing) is to take what the mixer (any mixer) spits out and distribute it appropriately throughout the space. It means that the PA can be configured, maintained, and (to some extent) operated without having to deal with all the additional complexity a console introduces. Conversely, it also means that the console can be configured, maintained, and operated without having to deal with all the additional complexity (and opportunities for really boneheaded mistakes) PA processing introduces.

Not sure about Vegas, but every Broadway touring/tryout show I've worked on still runs most of those outputs through half a rack of Galileos in "ampland" before they reach the speakers (even if the speakers are all powered, and even—somewhat strangely—if the PA isn't Meyer). One (massive) system processor means managing all those outputs (and their tuning and alignment, etc.) is kept as straightforward as possible.

-Russ

Before Galileo it was "how many outputs can I get out of a PM1D?"
Logged
"It's got electrolytes.  It's got what plants crave."

Mac Kerr

  • Old enough to know better
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7056
  • Audio Plumber
Re: No High pass filters, next best options parametric and graphic eq?
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2021, 10:17:33 PM »

Before Galileo it was "how many outputs can I get out of a PM1D?"

You can get a lot...

Mac
Logged

Doug Fowler

  • Member since May 1995, 2nd poster on original LAB, moderator on and off since 1997, now running TurboMOD v1.826
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1979
  • Saint Louis, MO USA
Re: No High pass filters, next best options parametric and graphic eq?
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2021, 10:59:20 PM »

You can get a lot...

Mac

Right, then Midas produced that giant thing with what, 500ish outputs?   
I guess that worked out to about $1000 per output.
Logged
"It's got electrolytes.  It's got what plants crave."

Chris Hindle

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2209
  • Montreal, Quebec, Canada, Earth, Sol System,......
Re: No High pass filters, next best options parametric and graphic eq?
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2021, 12:40:39 AM »

Before Galileo it was "how many outputs can I get out of a PM1D?"

Hahah. ALL of them!  8)
Chris.
Logged
Ya, Whatever. Just throw a '57 on it, and get off my stage.

Russell Ault

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1382
  • Edmonton, AB
Re: No High pass filters, next best options parametric and graphic eq?
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2021, 01:25:59 AM »

{...} IMO, it's an oversight to not include at least highpass filters on the outputs of any digital console, and I can come up with a list as long as my arm as to why they're helpful especially at the lounge level. Yeah at the Broadway or touring level, if there's additional consoles coming in with BEs, I agree, get your system processing out of the console and into a dedicated DSP. But for the times when you show up to a small gig and just need some filters to make something happen, HPF/LPF on the outs is very useful to have. {...}

To be clear, I agree with this (and I'm pretty sure I said so in an earlier post). Sometimes quick-and-dirty is the order of the day if you're relying on the house system, and having easy access to decent crossover filters can make quick-and-dirty a little quicker and a little less dirty. :)

That being said, if I was building a rig that included the PA (or, for that matter, setting up an installed system in a venue), regardless of size I would absolutely put some kind of system processor in between the console and the PA for all the reasons I mentioned above. Certainly there are Lounge-level system processors available.

Before Galileo it was "how many outputs can I get out of a PM1D?"

...which, at least in terms of raw numbers, was a huge step up from the Cadac J-type, with its measly 32 matrix outputs (plus the 16 groups "direct" and 12 auxes, if you got desperate).

-Russ
Logged

Doug Fowler

  • Member since May 1995, 2nd poster on original LAB, moderator on and off since 1997, now running TurboMOD v1.826
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1979
  • Saint Louis, MO USA
Re: No High pass filters, next best options parametric and graphic eq?
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2021, 02:23:01 AM »

To be clear, I agree with this (and I'm pretty sure I said so in an earlier post). Sometimes quick-and-dirty is the order of the day if you're relying on the house system, and having easy access to decent crossover filters can make quick-and-dirty a little quicker and a little less dirty. :)

That being said, if I was building a rig that included the PA (or, for that matter, setting up an installed system in a venue), regardless of size I would absolutely put some kind of system processor in between the console and the PA for all the reasons I mentioned above. Certainly there are Lounge-level system processors available.

...which, at least in terms of raw numbers, was a huge step up from the Cadac J-type, with its measly 32 matrix outputs (plus the 16 groups "direct" and 12 auxes, if you got desperate).

-Russ

AFAIK any modern DSP box will get the job done for those level of events.  Bonus for digital out/in, nowadays there is probably no reason to not do that.  I too would set it up that way, but yeah if you're doing smallish events with powered boxes it would be really nice for the HPF on console outputs.

There used to be some entry level turds out there with various problems, and at least one not so entry device.
JBL DSC 260 had a strange internal gain structure, so much so that they offered up a fix that involved opening it up and replacing various bits with different values to make it work "correctly".  That was an OEMed BSS Omnidrive. I don't know if the BSS version had this problem.

The very first DriveRacks had sound quality issues. 

A nice used 4 in, 8 out would be a nice addition to anyone's rig, especially if you're looking to move up in the market for maybe some local corporate gigs.  Those outputs will be needed at some point.

Logged
"It's got electrolytes.  It's got what plants crave."

Dan Richardson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 766
  • southern Vermont
    • NotTooLoud
Re: No High pass filters, next best options parametric and graphic eq?
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2021, 07:55:43 AM »

If it’s just a simple amplifier powering some passive speakers then just use the HP filter on all the channels for protection as I mentioned above.

My mains, my monitors, and my fills, are 3 very different HP frequencies. The built in DSP HP is only correct on the powered mains in my small system.
Logged
The best sound system is no sound system. Everything else is compromise.

Dan Richardson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 766
  • southern Vermont
    • NotTooLoud
Re: No High pass filters, next best options parametric and graphic eq?
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2021, 07:56:55 AM »

Woah woah woah! We're in the Lounge, are we not?

Thank you.
Logged
The best sound system is no sound system. Everything else is compromise.

Peter Morris

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1375
Re: No High pass filters, next best options parametric and graphic eq?
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2021, 09:45:53 AM »

My mains, my monitors, and my fills, are 3 very different HP frequencies. The built in DSP HP is only correct on the powered mains in my small system.


What typically happens in a small gig is you HP vocal around 80 – 100Hz on the channel, If your AUX send is tapped off after the HPF that will also protect your vocal monitors (and FOH).  If your FOH needs to be HP at 40Hz, put a HP on the kick and bass at 40Hz and that will protect your FOH. If you are using a drum fill that needs more protection than a 40Hz HP or you want to put kick in your vocal wedges …  :( … at this point you will need to invest in an SQ and / or some better signal processing.

… but if all you have is a Qu, and you are not using powered speakers with their own built in protection, this approach is probably the best you can do, just be very careful of your drum fill.

« Last Edit: June 24, 2021, 09:51:56 AM by Peter Morris »
Logged

Russell Ault

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1382
  • Edmonton, AB
Re: No High pass filters, next best options parametric and graphic eq?
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2021, 08:00:55 PM »

{...} A nice used 4 in, 8 out would be a nice addition to anyone's rig, especially if you're looking to move up in the market for maybe some local corporate gigs.  Those outputs will be needed at some point.

A few years ago I picked up a "pulled working" Nexia SP for not a lot of money (for reference, there's at least one on eBay right now for less than $150). I had to build break-outs for the Euroblock connectors, but it's done everything I've asked it to do.

-Russ
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: No High pass filters, next best options parametric and graphic eq?
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2021, 08:00:55 PM »


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.03 seconds with 17 queries.