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Author Topic: Change my current system?  (Read 2644 times)

Tim Weaver

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Re: Change my current system?
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2021, 12:18:30 PM »

I think you answered your own question.

I'm in this camp too. If it works and makes money, why change?

The only thing I might suggest is to consolidate into one brand maybe just for the folks who shop with their eyes. As a growth plan you could slowly buy in to some 3-way powered mains and 4 single 18 subs or 2 dual 18's.

I think the Yamaha stuff is very capable for this market. I would probably just get a selection of the DSR/DXR/DBR/DXS or whatever they have.
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Corey Scogin

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Re: Change my current system?
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2021, 02:12:59 PM »

Thatís disappointing to hear! Yamaha really hyped up the larger compression driver and I was hoping there would be some noticeable improvements, especially as Yamaha increased the price by £200 each when they were launched  :-\

That's funny. The new compression driver is on the smaller side too relative to some slightly more expensive competitors. That doesn't mean it doesn't sound good. It's about system performance, not the details of a particular component. Though sometimes larger compression drivers can have an advantage, it doesn't mean larger is always better.

If you're interested in larger compression drivers and corresponding lower crossover points, putting more on the horn, RCF is one of the few that design boxes geared that direction. But they'll be more expensive and may not have the features you're looking for (high-pass, other adjustable DSP).

I think the Yamaha stuff is very capable for this market. I would probably just get a selection of the DSR/DXR/DBR/DXS or whatever they have.

I agree with Tim. Yamaha gear typically has a very good price/performance ratio. If you're at the DXR line or better, you're in a pretty good spot.
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Richard Penrose

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Re: Change my current system?
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2021, 02:27:58 PM »

The reason why Iím keen to change is because of the weight! I injured my back and shoulder a few years ago and would like to cut the weight down. Also, at quite a few of the venues I work at, it is not possible to wheel equipment due to the terrain and steps. One of the venues has 120 steps down a cliff so not one for big subs!!!

Ideally I would love a system that can at least match the audio quality, output and depth of bass of my system where the subs weigh the same or less than the DXR15ís and very lightweight at under 15kg! I have heard the KV2 EX6 / EX1.2 system and this sounds wonderful. However, this still doesnít solve the issue as the sub is still fairly heavy at 32kg and doesnít have castors. It also costs around £7000 which way out of my budget!
Iíve also heard a pair of Nexo PS10ís over a single LS500 sub and this put out a huge sound for such a small system and was possibly matching or even exceeding my system. This makes me very interested in a secondhand PS10 / LS400 system! However, as I mentioned Iím not keen on a passive system because of having to carry an extra amp and system controller. Some gigs I use just a pair of DXR15ís which is way less to carry than a pair of PS10ís, pair of LS400ís, amp and controller!
The closest Iíve come across that I can actually afford is the FBT VN2000 but Iím not sure if this could even get close to my current system? Iíve spoken to a few people who use them for running full bands through them and say they perform great and completely exceeded their expectations for such a small system. I may see if I can arrange to hear this system next to mine at some point.

I have considered consolidating to one brand but the Yamaha 18Ē subs weigh almost 10kg more before adding castors! Also, I prefer the sound of Yamaha tops compared to QSCís (apart from the KW153 which weighs almost 40kg!)

Iím not planning on growing but going more compact and lightweight without downgrading performance.
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Richard Penrose

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Re: Change my current system?
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2021, 02:30:42 PM »

That's funny. The new compression driver is on the smaller side too relative to some slightly more expensive competitors. That doesn't mean it doesn't sound good. It's about system performance, not the details of a particular component. Though sometimes larger compression drivers can have an advantage, it doesn't mean larger is always better.

If you're interested in larger compression drivers and corresponding lower crossover points, putting more on the horn, RCF is one of the few that design boxes geared that direction. But they'll be more expensive and may not have the features you're looking for (high-pass, other adjustable DSP).

I agree with Tim. Yamaha gear typically has a very good price/performance ratio. If you're at the DXR line or better, you're in a pretty good spot.

Thanks yes Iíve heard the RCF 735a mk4 and it is definitely a good speakers but Iím not sure I could call it better than the DXR15? They both have strengths and weaknesses.

Did you notice if the larger compression driver helped the sound stay cleaner when driven at high splís?
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Corey Scogin

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Re: Change my current system?
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2021, 02:59:57 PM »

Did you notice if the larger compression driver helped the sound stay cleaner when driven at high splís?

I have not compared the mk1 and the mk2 when driven hard, only at moderate levels. Sorry.
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Change my current system?
« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2021, 03:40:28 PM »

Having dofferent subs vs tops isn't as much of a concern in your market really. Lots of people mix and match tops and subs exactly for the reason you state. That and the Yamaha's are the kings of the MI powered top and the JBL SRX 818/828 are the same for powered subs right now.

It's more about having enough of the same brand/style of speaker for two mains and 4-6 monitors is a bigger deal when trying to sell the system to a client. Could be 2 DXS mains and 6 DBR monitors. At least they look the same and are all from Yamaha.



Also havong just bought 4 DXR Mk1's I can tell you there is nothing lacking in the HF department. They are great. I wouldn't worry about buying the Mk2 version thinking you are getting something "More".
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Richard Penrose

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Re: Change my current system?
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2021, 02:33:59 AM »

I have not compared the mk1 and the mk2 when driven hard, only at moderate levels. Sorry.

Thanks. Iím wondering if this is where the new larger driver makes a difference? Anyway, the original mk1 stays surprisingly clean when driven at really high splís! The DXR15ís are a lot of speaker for the money.
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Richard Penrose

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Re: Change my current system?
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2021, 02:45:55 AM »

Having dofferent subs vs tops isn't as much of a concern in your market really. Lots of people mix and match tops and subs exactly for the reason you state. That and the Yamaha's are the kings of the MI powered top and the JBL SRX 818/828 are the same for powered subs right now.

It's more about having enough of the same brand/style of speaker for two mains and 4-6 monitors is a bigger deal when trying to sell the system to a client. Could be 2 DXS mains and 6 DBR monitors. At least they look the same and are all from Yamaha.



Also havong just bought 4 DXR Mk1's I can tell you there is nothing lacking in the HF department. They are great. I wouldn't worry about buying the Mk2 version thinking you are getting something "More".

I donít think Iíve ever had a client mention or even notice that the subs and tops are different brands. Aesthetically the DXR and KW181 grills are so similar that the look like they match apart from the badge.
I did consider the JBL SRX818spís when I bought the KW181ís but I know a few companies in the UK had reliability issues with these. The KW181ís have an excellent reputation for reliability and that swayed my decision in the end. Also, Iíve never felt like they lack power and I never use the Deep setting on the back! I find the KW181ís actually sound pretty musical instead of a one note thump or boomy like some subs Iíve heard!

Iíve heard the Yamaha DXS18xlf noticeably out performs the KW 181ís and would possibly integrate with the DXRís a little better but the extra size and weight is a deal breaker for me. This is a shame as I would expect the combination of the DXS18 xlf sound and dsp integration to improve the overall sound of my main system.


One feature that I had completely missed with the Yamaha range is their cases for these speakers! These look much better than the cheap cases Iím using at the moment!! Also, you can use the speakers with the cases on due to the front face being unzippable with a water resistant mesh underneath. I recently did an event where there was a bit of very light rain and it was a bit of a nightmare. I had to cover the speakers with plastic bags during setup and at one point the event was nearly cancelled. Having these cases would have made a big difference and would have been extremely useful on other past gigs!

« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 02:55:38 AM by Richard Penrose »
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Change my current system?
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2021, 02:52:35 AM »

I donít think Iíve ever had a client mention or even notice that the subs and tops are different brands. Aesthetically the DXR and KW181 grills are so similar that the look like they match apart from the badge.
I did consider the JBL SRX818spís when I bought the KW181ís but I know a few companies in the UK had reliability issues with these. The KW181ís have an excellent reputation for reliability and that swayed my decision in the end. Also, Iíve never felt like they lack power and I never use the Deep setting on the back! I find the KW181ís actually sound pretty musical instead of a one note thump or boomy like some subs Iíve heard!

Iíve heard the Yamaha DXS18xlf noticeably out performs the KW 181ís and would possibly integrate with the DXRís a little better but the extra size and weight is a deal breaker for me. This is a shame as I would expect the combination of the DXS18 xlf sound and dsp integration to improve the overall sound of my main system.

For sure. I wouldn't trade the QSC's for the JBL's. It's a sideways move at best.
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Richard Penrose

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Re: Change my current system?
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2021, 04:05:42 AM »

Yep Iím definitely not considering changing to the SRX818 subs. For the size of events Iím doing (up to 400 ish) the KW181ís are doing a great job.

I have a feeling Iím not going to find anything as good but lighter at around £3000. I think my budget would need to a least double for a smaller lightweight active system that can at least match the performance of what I already have.
The Yamaha DXRís have really hit the sweet spot for price vs performance and offer a lot of speaker for your money! Also, the QSC KW181ís offer a lot of performance in a fairly small and reasonably lightweight 18Ē speaker! I havenít found anything around £2000 (what I paid) for the pair that outperforms these that donít weigh more. The next 15Ē active speaker that I would consider as a potential upgrade without weighing more is the RCF HDM45 but these cost close to three times the price of what I originally paid for my DXR15ís!! Maybe if an exceptional ex demo deal came up I would consider these but I definitely canít justify the price difference when my current system is earning money and I consistently get compliments on the sound.

I guess I was hoping something would have been realeased during the past 10 years that could offer closer to what Iím looking for but it looks like the DXR15ís and KW181ís are still pretty much at the top for their price, performance and weight!?

« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 04:17:29 AM by Richard Penrose »
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Re: Change my current system?
¬ę Reply #19 on: June 16, 2021, 04:05:42 AM ¬Ľ


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