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[Paul G. OBrien]

Bandpass designs can sound as good (or bad!) as any other.

Yes of course, it's all about driver selection and how well the box design works with them. I have seen both sides of the coin with bandpass subs and it has left me with a preference for boxes with larger drivers. The worst examples I have heard were those with 8" and 10" drivers so I'm automatically skeptical of any box so equipped, but I'm also open minded enough to know that a good sounding sub could be designed with this size drivers.

[Dan Godwin]

This +1.  They pay for stairs.  (period)

I told the band that I usually charge extra for stairs.  Part of this is on me because I accepted the gigs last minute and they were at venues I haven't previously worked at and didn't have time to advance.  The LS701P handle placement makes them front-heavy and not ideal for a 2 person carry.  They do meet my needs currently, however, so I'll keep them in the inventory for now.  Thanks everyone for the lively discussion. 

[Steve-White]

^^^ Everybody gets or has gotten caught on stairs - that goes with the territory. 

[Tim McCulloch]

^^^ Everybody gets or has gotten caught on stairs - that goes with the territory. 

One of the questions I ask about a venue - is it ADA compliant/handicapped accessible?  If the answer is anything other than "yes", I add additional fees to the estimate to cover additional labor.  I try to advance local-ish venues in person (at least a drive-by) and if it turns out the venue doesn't have stairs, narrow doors or other obstructions, I'll not send extra help and remove the fees from the invoice.

A local hotel's ballroom had a 4-step-down access to floor level, or one had to load in through the front doors (which they really didn't like).  While 4 steps doesn't seem like a lot, moving a box truck full of gear through a pedestrian door with steps got old, fast.  IIRC I added $250 for additional labor.  The door was too narrow for our ramp, or I'd have not charged extra.  They remodeled a few years back and put in new freight doors, matched level with the interior and exterior, and it's a much, much nicer place to work.  The "Drury Fee" is still in the estimate data base but no longer used.

[Steve Litcher]

Venue quirks and bad designs aside, JTR's Captivator C212PRO sub weighs in at around 65-lbs and does a great job for nearly everything except for maybe EDM music. It'll go down to 39Hz +/-3dB and gets plenty loud. Our standard "bar room/small ballroom" rig was 2x C212PRO + 1 DSR per side, and 9x out of 10, I only needed 1x C212PRO per side. They hit harder than their weight class should.

[Steve-White]

One of the questions I ask about a venue - is it ADA compliant/handicapped accessible?  If the answer is anything other than "yes", I add additional fees to the estimate to cover additional labor.  I try to advance local-ish venues in person (at least a drive-by) and if it turns out the venue doesn't have stairs, narrow doors or other obstructions, I'll not send extra help and remove the fees from the invoice.

A local hotel's ballroom had a 4-step-down access to floor level, or one had to load in through the front doors (which they really didn't like).  While 4 steps doesn't seem like a lot, moving a box truck full of gear through a pedestrian door with steps got old, fast.  IIRC I added $250 for additional labor.  The door was too narrow for our ramp, or I'd have not charged extra.  They remodeled a few years back and put in new freight doors, matched level with the interior and exterior, and it's a much, much nicer place to work.  The "Drury Fee" is still in the estimate data base but no longer used.

If I don't know the venue, I'm big on a site survey as well.  Last one that was interesting in that area was a Gazebo Garden Wedding I did sound and lighting for.  Held in December at a city park picnic gazebo area adjacent to the athletic fields.  250+ feet from parking lot to the gazebo with a 90 degree turn in the walkway about 1/2 way.  I lit the walkway with floods in a tripod at the bend and then uplit all the surrounding oak trees and gazebo where food tables were setup.  Hung a canvas backdrop at the altar with uplighting.

I always like to know what I'm getting into ahead of time - surprises most times aren't fun - especially when there's a truckload of gear involved and clock is ticking.

What we haul is much more than just subs.

[Greg Harwood]

Yep, the JTR 212 is a great little box.  I have the powered versions and have never needed more than 2.....I have 4 but haven't needed them all yet.

[Mal Brown]

Those 212's look pretty sweet.  A how do they stack up against a pair of kw-181 ?  Yes, I know the 181 doesn't get a lot of love here but mine have given me yeoman performance over the years.  Just eq out a little flab in the very lows and - good to go.

[Greg Harwood]

Those 212's look pretty sweet.  A how do they stack up against a pair of kw-181 ?  Yes, I know the 181 doesn't get a lot of love here but mine have given me yep and performances over the years.  Just eq out a little flab in the very lows and - good to go.

I have never compared them to the kw subs, but did have the venerable Yorkville LS800P subs prior to the JTR 212's and its roughly a one to one swap for output, but the 212's sound a lot better and go a little lower.  I would expect the 212 to have more output than the KW-181 and also sound better.  The 212's are really nice, compact subs.

[Douglas R. Allen]

I have never compared them to the kw subs, but did have the venerable Yorkville LS800P subs prior to the JTR 212's and its roughly a one to one swap for output, but the 212's sound a lot better and go a little lower.  I would expect the 212 to have more output than the KW-181 and also sound better.  The 212's are really nice, compact subs.

   This is interesting to me. I have the LS801pb's that for some reason my back is giving me grief about them... Did you have a chance to measure them with Smaart or similar? I've had the LS800's as well. Do the 212's kick as hard? That is one thing I can't seem to find in/around the LS801pb's price range but in a smaller/lighter package. Do you feel they hold up well when pushed. I've always felt the LS's are fine the few times I've had them starting to flash their clip lights.

   Thanks for any information;
   Douglas R. Allen

As a side note a friend of mine has the Orbit Shifter and the spec's and output was to the speakers factory spec sheet when measured with smaart. 

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