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[Doug Fowler]

"Go get that green truck with the millennial anti-theft device"

Uh oh.....

[John Roberts {JR}]

In the US a manual tranny is the best anti-theft device.

As for double-clutching, in the cars I owned early on it wasn't a matter of there not being a 1st synchro, more that it failed to do anything. The habit persisted into later cars that had working synchros and I eventually decided it was an affectation and got over it. -F

Having helped rebuilt quite a few, there were indeed no 1st gear synchro rings in the old 3 speed gear boxes***.

I actually never "blew" a transmission, among my sundry other motor and drive train failures. One time I literally broke a transmission cover plate from trying to make the 1-2 shift too fast. The cover plate was cast iron and the boss holding the shifter actuator broke from the stress. Reverse was the outer part of first gear making them relatively heavy and hard to shift fast. 

For any of you old motor hears still playing along from home... I actually broke a "Hurst" floor shift handle and they were guaranteed for life. 

 JR   

*** back in the 60s I managed to find a rare all synchro 3 speed transmission. IIRC it was originally a Pontiac (GM) transmission that was used briefly on fords. I had the bad fortune of cracking a 3rd gear synchro ring, and the exotic parentage of that transmission meant that FOMOCO parts was a black hole for repair parts with months of delay. I found a junk yard synchro ring from an old Lasalle transmission but it was a little short so whenever I drove over 100 MPH the centrifugal force would wedge up the synchro alignment buttons and get the transmission stuck in 3rd gear. 

[Chris Hindle]

Having helped rebuilt quite a few, there were indeed no 1st gear synchro rings in the old 3 speed gear boxes***.

I actually never "blew" a transmission, among my sundry other motor and drive train failures. One time I literally broke a transmission cover plate from trying to make the 1-2 shift too fast. The cover plate was cast iron and the boss holding the shifter actuator broke from the stress. Reverse was the outer part of first gear making them relatively heavy and hard to shift fast. 

For any of you old motor hears still playing along from home... I actually broke a "Hurst" floor shift handle and they were guaranteed for life. 

 JR   

*** back in the 60s I managed to find a rare all synchro 3 speed transmission. IIRC it was originally a Pontiac (GM) transmission that was used briefly on fords. I had the bad fortune of cracking a 3rd gear synchro ring, and the exotic parentage of that transmission meant that FOMOCO parts was a black hole for repair parts with months of delay. I found a junk yard synchro ring from an old Lasalle transmission but it was a little short so whenever I drove over 100 MPH the centrifugal force would wedge up the synchro alignment buttons and get the transmission stuck in 3rd gear.

Well, i stand corrected.
I overhauled a lot of 1970 to 1985 GM Saginaw and Muncie 3 speeds, both car and pickups.
Several Muncie and Super T-10 4 speeds (including my 1971 M-22 Rockcrusher), and a couple of 4 speed plus overdrives. All were fully synchronized in forward gears.
No synchros in first make for interesting downshifts under power.....
Chris.

[Scott Holtzman]

Hey Scott,

Happy to hear that things are picking up for your sound business. I have yet to do a post-pandemic event but at the very least I expect to drag out some gear on the 4th of July.

Sadly, the Quigley/Transit is not available with a manual in the US. It would be a blast with the 3.5 Ecoboost (Egoboost?) and a dash-mounted shift lever like the Euro-versions have. There might be some practical advantage, too, as I don't think the automatic is really up to the job thermally. At least with Quigley there's a low-range that greatly reduces the stress on the tranny when climbing steep, slow hills where the torque convertor is unlocked. The saving grace on the automatic is that the ergonomics of the range limiter buttons is really good. You rest your right hand on the big selector blob and you can diddle the up/down buttons with your thumb. Holding the up button for a couple seconds returns to full automatic glory. There's also a "tow/haul" mode but I've never found any use for it. It makes the upshift points higher but still waits too long to downshift, and the downshifts under load are never pretty. Better just to use the buttons.

When I was a young teen I wanted nothing more than to drive (audio was a close second, sex and drugs came later). After watching a tandem-axle motor coach driver taking me to summer camp run the tranny up Highway 1 along the Norcal coast I wanted nothing more than to drive something with a manual. My parents' cars were automatics which I thought was so lame. Fortunately my friend's dad had a cherished Volkswagen microbus and when he drove us around I always positioned myself in the second row bench to where I could watch his hands and feet. He was an expert driver, as it turns out, and I pretty much had all is moves before I was ever at the controls of a car myself. Soon after I turned 16 and got my license I got a 1961 Volkswagen Beetle of my own and started learning for real. I've only owned two automatics in my life, the other was also an American van.

Enough autobiography. I have to take my Biennial Flight review this afternoon. Cramming airspace, V-speeds, VFR-minimum corner cases, etc. Wish me luck

--Frank

4 gigs and I netted less than $500 so it's progress not perfection.  I had a blast taking care of a friends band at a campground tonight and they smoked some fine meat so I can't complain.  I touched no carbs, no beans, no bread, not a single fry touched my lips.  I probably ate a pound of smoked turkey though so again progress not perfection.   But anyway, back to tramsmissions.  Dad had a Dodge can with an old miller welder mounted in the back with a three on the tree, I could drive that at 13.  My the time I was 16 he let me loose on the F650's and I was delivering scaffolding all over Broward county.  My first car was a Monza (a Vega in drag) with a 6 cylinder a manual trans.  It met an untimely demise when we stuffed a 400 short block in it and twisted the 10 bolt rear end, ruptured a fuel line and it burned itself to the ground in an untimely demise in an industrial area that was known for street racing activity.  The fire caught the attention of the Sunrise PD and resulted in my first room and board courtesy of some municipality.  I never was convicted of anything other that traffic misdemeanors though.  I had to get to school so my punishment was an a 1973 lincoln mark that had the back seat removed and airshocks installed so the cavernous rear area could haul a decent load of lumber or concrete.  It had the dark blue Bill Blass interior and I was able to fit 8" speakers in the door so there was something for that, I never had a single date in that vehicle.  Senior year found me working at Dad's shop and an installer and bench tech at a Motorola MSO so I was able to purchase a wrecked Z-28 camaro and with some other creative activities I had the front clip on 8 coats of gorgeous lacquer (I can't remember if we ever shot a clear coat) but the lacquer was shot over a white base and the car was stunning.  A 350 LT-1 (4 bolt mains and forged pistons), crane street roller 1.93 heads, edelbrock/holley on the top, an MSD ignition, muncie m22, 12 bolt rear with summers upgrades and a 4" narrowing to tuck the M/T 50 series completely under the factory fenders, a fuel cell and rear roll cage along with a set of recaro's out of a mustang, 10 channels of A/D/S amps and speakers in biamp glory and I had a real ride that was paid off before I left for camp tampa and intensive study of System V Unix.  I had a lot of fun in my teenage years. 


So that's my walk down memory lane with my ridiculously clear memory of all of that nonsense.  I will add that in 1994 I flew out to Tempe and bought a BMW 735 sedan with a 5 speed.  The 5 series just could not keep me comfortable on long drives and less that 100 of the big sedans were ordered that year with a manual.  I found one that someone had put a deposit on then could not obtain financing, that was a fun car and evaporated in divorce #1 (and only).  I also had a 1987 Dodge RAM minivan with a 5 speed that was a blast even with a four cylinder. 


 I am driving an Acadia now so no automotive excitement in my life. 

[Landon Lewsaw]

What a weird thread!

I was a professional gearjammer for 18 years, loved the art of rowing through the gears in an 18 speed.  Lots of fun to perfect, but they're disappearing even in that world.  Teaching my 15 year old to drive our five speed Corolla this summer, and I keep telling him this will be like a superpower to you.  No chance that he will be passing the skill on to his kid one day.  Something like 1.5% of vehicles in N.A. are manual now - once sports cars went automatic the end became very near.

[Noah D Mitchell]

[size=78%]I am driving an Acadia now so no automotive excitement in my life. [/size]

Sorry, I LOL'ed. This was the ultimate *sad trombone noises* quote of the weekend on PSW.


True: Car manufacturing has mastered the art of perfectly acceptable and totally unremarkable. There's a lot of refinement and comfort in even very humdrum brands these days, but precious little excitement to be found.

[Dan Mortensen]

Back to the electric car thread:

Back in the days when I had an income, I looked around at electric cars and bought a new 2018 Kia Soul Electric. For them, it was a "compliance car", meaning that they were only building them and only building enough of them to get their fleet miles-per-gallon to some number acceptable to whoever was counting. I bought mine in May and by June there were none to be found in America, or so I heard. They didn't build any the next year, and only a few the year after that. Don't think they built any this year, they have a new model altogether coming out that's bigger and less truck-like.

It's a cute little car with a hatchback and squared off back, so the load-carrying area is nearly a rectangular cube. I can fit a decent little PA in there, and it mostly has no problem with 500# or so.

I got it to be an in-city car, and for that it's really, really great. Fits in the tiniest parking places, doesn't care if I'm driving for 4 minutes to the destination, letting it sit for a couple hours, then driving 4 minutes back.

Getting stuck in a traffic jam is no problem because it just sits there, not consuming electricity other than the stereo.

Quiet, lots of acceleration when necessary, comfortable by my standards. List price was whatever it was (US$30k maybe), but the real price was just over 25, and doing a lease first for 6 months and then paying it off brought it down significantly from there, for some reason.

Since I had lots of money at that time, I put in a level 2 (240v, 50 amp) charging station next to our parking spaces, in a real roadside utility box like you see all over the place for street lights and things like that, with a beefy integrated lock.

Range on a full charge started out at 133 miles and is down to 127 now, which is plenty for my purposes.

Full charge on a level 1 charger (120v 20amp) was about 16 hours from 20% or so (scary to get below that, as who knows how really accurate the mileage-left meter is), and is under 4 hours with the level 2.

We've not tried to do any cross-country trips, because we have a Honda CRV that is super comfortable and easy to drive and fill up, and we don't take cross-country trips much, anyway. The Soul's ride is a little choppy at highway speeds for a long time, too, IMO.

The joys of not having to do oil changes, spark plugs, timing and timing belts, transmission fluid, radiator/fluid, etc. etc. etc. are immense, and this is clearly the future, which can't come too soon for me.

It does have its little weirdnesses, like the fact there there are two batteries in it: the one the propels the car, and the one that powers all the electronics. The former one you have a big read out showing charge/mileage left; the latter has no indicator AT ALL. So if you don't drive your car at all for 3 months, all of a sudden nothing works and you don't know why. Once you know about that, you start to pay attention so it stops being a problem. I hope.

That said, a 5000 mile checkup consists of looking for tire wear and changing the in-cabin air filter.

7500 is rotating the tires.

I figure that by the time the main batteries die (10 year warranty on that, btw), it'll be time to get the newest thing anyway.

[Frank Koenig]

It does have its little weirdnesses, like the fact there there are two batteries in it: the one the propels the car, and the one that powers all the electronics. The former one you have a big read out showing charge/mileage left; the latter has no indicator AT ALL. So if you don't drive your car at all for 3 months, all of a sudden nothing works and you don't know why. Once you know about that, you start to pay attention so it stops being a problem. I hope.

That's a great review. You understand the car's virtues and use them to good effect.

I find the need for two batteries an interesting subject. When I first started learning about the current crop of BEVs, say 10 years ago, I was disappointed to learn that they all used a 12 V "car battery" in addition to the traction battery. I thought it was just the manufacturers cheaping-out so that they could use conventional 12 V accessories -- lights, controls, entertainment systems, etc. -- to ease into the new designs. This is true to some extent. But when I began to study the Tesla I learned of the requirement to completely disconnect the traction battery for safety. The traction battery assembly has 2 high-power contactors built into it that are pulled in by the 12V battery. When the car is off or at any sign of trouble the contactors let go isolating the traction battery. It all makes sense now.

In the case of Tesla the 12 V, which is a deep-cycle AGM type, is kept topped off by the traction battery. When the car is sitting it goes clunk every few hours as the contactors pull in for a few minutes to allow the 12 V to charge. The off-state load on the 12 V, at least in the case of my car, is something like 30 W to keep all the damn computers and radios going. (There is a "power-saver" mode that reduces this somewhat at the expense of a slower turn-on.) For a while Tesla was having problems with short life on the 12 V because it was subject to so many deep cycles. Between a switch of battery vendor and maybe some change in the charging rules they appear to have fixed the problem. I'm on either my first or second 12 V after 6 years -- dunno if they changed it at my "4 year service".

There has been talk of going to a Li battery for the 12 V but then there are concerns of cold-soaked performance. You need a working 12 V to thermally manage the traction battery when it's cold out. So lead-acids may be around for a while.

One funny consequence is that, much like CD-players not putting an end to skipping records, BEVs can still have a "dead battery" requiring a jump. The Tesla is indeed equipped with jump terminals for the 12 V and I keep a set of jumpers in the car just in case.

--Frank

[Riley Casey]

Asking for a jump on a Tesla embarrassment factor 10x.

...The Tesla is indeed equipped with jump terminals for the 12 V and I keep a set of jumpers in the car just in case.

--Frank

[Stephen Swaffer]

I work in a facility that has a small fleet of forklifts about evenly divided between LP and electric.  We have purchased new of each in the last few years.  We typically use the electrics in departments (shipping) that run hard for one shift, then sit overnight.  The LP's are used for departments with a less regular usage schedule, but they work around the clock-so a consistent charging schedule would be a nightmare to manage.

Comparing the two, often I prefer the electric for various reasons-smoothness of acceleration and consistent power being the most noticeable.  Maintenance wise, I really don't have a great handle on cost-most has to do with other than propulsion issues anyway-tires/mechanical wear.

I found it interesting in a conversation with forklift pro's they equated the electric battery to the engine.  Thinking about that, when I was a teen a car with 100,000 miles on it was pretty worn out-now a days 200-300K is not unusual.  Of course, mileage plays a big part in the value of a used vehicle.  Perhaps it will be an adjustment as we learn to equate "odometer miles" to expected battery life?  While it is not unheard of to replace an engine or transmission-it is also not uncommon for one or the other's failure's to be the ultimate reason for a vehicle being scrapped.  Perhaps batteries would be the same-available, but not always a viable option?

Just like forklifts, I feel like the individual application should dictate the choice.  Often times it seems like heated pro/con debates-whether audio/ev or whatever revolve around some of the people involved thinking everyone's situation is the same as theirs.  Life is always better when there are options.

[ProSoundWeb Community]