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Author Topic: Battery-electric Road Vehicles and Energy Infrastructure  (Read 3463 times)

Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Battery-electric Road Vehicles and Energy Infrastructure
« Reply #50 on: June 07, 2021, 03:18:47 PM »

My learner's car was a 1970 Datsun pickup that was 17 years old and very tired when I started. The linkage on the 4-speed shifter flopped like a wet noodle. You couldn't tell what gear it was in by the position of the shifter. Actually, you could once you became very familiar with the rig -- even though the flop far overlapped the different positions, you could tell by where it flopped.

The steering was also... interesting. It was necessary to steer it down a straight road, because it would not travel in a straight line. Not even a predictable pull one way or the other.

Windshield wipers? Yes, they worked, but you learned how to shut them off at the precise bottom of the stroke because they didn't park anymore.

The turn signal switch broke, so a toggle switch on the dash served that purpose.

The funniest thing was that, for as long as we owned the pickup (it was my oldest brother's, then he sold it to my dad, who sold it to the middle brother, who sold it to dad, who sold it to me), the gas gauge always read low. We learned to go by mileage, not trust the gauge, for when to fill up. Then one day I was idly wiggling some wires (fidgeting), and after that, the gas gauge read true.

It had various problems that any old car of that era had. The brakes were rebuilt several times. Had to rebuild the clutch slave cylinder when that went out -- drove home gearjamming, starting from stop with the starter. (It was actually very easy to shift without the clutch.)

Replaced the radiator cap -- that was a mistake. That blew the radiator, which I then had to replace.

Four-tone paint: baby blue, rust, primer gray, and moss.

Amazing thing is that the engine was never opened up, neither was the tranny. Original clutch the whole time.

Finally got rid of in 1996, traded it for a brand new Dodge Ram 1500. (Funny story: when I was signing papers, the GM stormed in demanding to know why that "piece of shit" was parked in front of his dealership.) They gave me 50 bucks for it, I think they got the raw end of the deal. Said goodbye at 220,000 miles and 26 years.

The Dodge has 220,000 miles and is now 25 years old. It's in far, far better shape.

In the market for another pickup, the Dodge doesn't have enough seats for the family. It's also a 5-speed, and my wife doesn't drive manual transmission. I tried to teach her once; quickly decided it was better for the marriage not to. But, given the current market, I'm probably best waiting until the supply chain problems are resolved before I buy another rig.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Battery-electric Road Vehicles and Energy Infrastructure
« Reply #51 on: June 07, 2021, 03:49:17 PM »

My learner's car was a 1970 Datsun pickup that was 17 years old and very tired when I started. The linkage on the 4-speed shifter flopped like a wet noodle. You couldn't tell what gear it was in by the position of the shifter. Actually, you could once you became very familiar with the rig -- even though the flop far overlapped the different positions, you could tell by where it flopped.
those cars were known for racking up lots of mileage
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The steering was also... interesting. It was necessary to steer it down a straight road, because it would not travel in a straight line. Not even a predictable pull one way or the other.
worn steering box, back lash/slop in the rack and pinion causes it to alternately veer one way or the other... I had an old ford with that problem.
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Windshield wipers? Yes, they worked, but you learned how to shut them off at the precise bottom of the stroke because they didn't park anymore.

The turn signal switch broke, so a toggle switch on the dash served that purpose.
I have a flaky turn signal in my current daily driver (going on 24 years old).... Luckily they stopped the annual inspections where I had to wiggle the handle until it worked.
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The funniest thing was that, for as long as we owned the pickup (it was my oldest brother's, then he sold it to my dad, who sold it to the middle brother, who sold it to dad, who sold it to me), the gas gauge always read low. We learned to go by mileage, not trust the gauge, for when to fill up. Then one day I was idly wiggling some wires (fidgeting), and after that, the gas gauge read true.
I used to depend on my trip odometer for when to fill up, but that stopped working several years ago... I trust my gas gauge as far as I can throw it, so I top off the tank when it gets close to 1/2.
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It had various problems that any old car of that era had. The brakes were rebuilt several times. Had to rebuild the clutch slave cylinder when that went out -- drove home gearjamming, starting from stop with the starter. (It was actually very easy to shift without the clutch.)
neutral to first is rough without using a clutch... if you have to you can sometimes start the car already in 1st gear. I had to do that the last time I blew a clutch and it wouldn't disengage. 
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Replaced the radiator cap -- that was a mistake. That blew the radiator, which I then had to replace.

Four-tone paint: baby blue, rust, primer gray, and moss.

Amazing thing is that the engine was never opened up, neither was the tranny. Original clutch the whole time.
I'm still on original clutch and brakes, but I don't wear much of either.
Quote
Finally got rid of in 1996, traded it for a brand new Dodge Ram 1500. (Funny story: when I was signing papers, the GM stormed in demanding to know why that "piece of shit" was parked in front of his dealership.) They gave me 50 bucks for it, I think they got the raw end of the deal. Said goodbye at 220,000 miles and 26 years.

The Dodge has 220,000 miles and is now 25 years old. It's in far, far better shape.
over the years Chrysler engineering has vacillated between over engineering and under engineering vehicles. I owned one over engineered 1966 barracuda that I put a bazillion miles on. The speedo didn't work when I bought it used years earlier. The body parts we just about falling off but the small v8/auto drive train was still rock solid when I released it back to the wild. I even won a trophy at the drag strip with it, when on a lark I pulled off the air filter, borrowed a helmet, and won HS/A (H stock automatic). Not that remarkable, all the serious car guys were doing bracket racing that day, so I actually turned a faster time than the F stocker I matched up against, which was not very fast. 
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In the market for another pickup, the Dodge doesn't have enough seats for the family. It's also a 5-speed, and my wife doesn't drive manual transmission. I tried to teach her once; quickly decided it was better for the marriage not to. But, given the current market, I'm probably best waiting until the supply chain problems are resolved before I buy another rig.
I saw a report that major brand used cars are up something like 35-40%, probably smart to wait a bit longer for prices to moderate but I expect inflation to be with us even after that.

JR 
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Battery-electric Road Vehicles and Energy Infrastructure
« Reply #52 on: June 07, 2021, 06:25:10 PM »

I got it to be an in-city car, and for that it's really, really great. Fits in the tiniest parking places, doesn't care if I'm driving for 4 minutes to the destination, letting it sit for a couple hours, then driving 4 minutes back.

Funny thing is the vast majority of driving is this exact scenario, and that's where electrics shine.  The current issue with electrics is for how to deal with charging on cross country trips.  It's hilarious how some people freak out that an electric car couldn't do that, but when asked when the last time they put more than 200 miles on their car in a single day, most wouldn't be able to even remember....

If you have more than one vehicle, an electric in your fleet makes sense. Or, if you plan to take a trip, rental cars are the way to go.  Rental cars are relatively inexpensive, and when you factor in the wear and tear of your own vehicle, a rental for a cross country trip is a no brainer.

I love my Chevy Volt though, because it contains the best of both worlds.  It's got enough electric go get me around town.  Rarely do I need to put gas in it.  But, if I need to go somewhere, I just fill up the tank and go!  Kind of a bummer that they killed it off, but it does make sense, as having both electric and gas in the vehicle is more expensive of an option.
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Daniel Levi

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Re: Battery-electric Road Vehicles and Energy Infrastructure
« Reply #53 on: June 08, 2021, 01:57:52 AM »

Asking for a jump on a Tesla embarrassment factor 10x.

Even worse, Tesla do not fit an emergency key hole so if the 12V battery goes flat you have to pull away bits of lining in the wheel arches to get to the emergency opening mechanism.
James May has the 12V battery go flat in his Tesla and had to go through all this faff.

My step-mum has an Ioniq hybrid and it's a great vehicle, plus no only does it have an emergency key hole, assuming there is some charge in the traction battery it can be used to start the vehicle if the 12V battery goes flat, Hyundai really knew what they were doing there.
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Frank Koenig

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Re: Battery-electric Road Vehicles and Energy Infrastructure
« Reply #54 on: June 08, 2021, 10:55:56 AM »

Even worse, Tesla do not fit an emergency key hole so if the 12V battery goes flat you have to pull away bits of lining in the wheel arches to get to the emergency opening mechanism.
James May has the 12V battery go flat in his Tesla and had to go through all this faff.

My step-mum has an Ioniq hybrid and it's a great vehicle, plus no only does it have an emergency key hole, assuming there is some charge in the traction battery it can be used to start the vehicle if the 12V battery goes flat, Hyundai really knew what they were doing there.

While getting a "bricked" Tesla started is no picnic (and I agree there's no excuse for that), in fairness the health of the 12 V is monitored and the car alerts you if it is getting weak. In most instances you get some warning of an impending failure, which is better than many ICVs.

It's interesting that the Ioniq can bootstrap off the traction battery. I wonder how they do that. Do they have a buck-convertor (DC-DC voltage reducer) integral with the battery pack that's upstream of the main contactors? If it fails how do you disconnect it from the traction battery? Does the traction battery power the contactors itself? Then what controls that? Not saying it can't be done -- it is -- but the engineer wonders how.

--Frank
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Battery-electric Road Vehicles and Energy Infrastructure
« Reply #55 on: June 08, 2021, 12:16:22 PM »

While getting a "bricked" Tesla started is no picnic (and I agree there's no excuse for that), in fairness the health of the 12 V is monitored and the car alerts you if it is getting weak. In most instances you get some warning of an impending failure, which is better than many ICVs.
what do you mean no warning? My check engine light has been lit for years...

JR
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It's interesting that the Ioniq can bootstrap off the traction battery. I wonder how they do that. Do they have a buck-convertor (DC-DC voltage reducer) integral with the battery pack that's upstream of the main contactors? If it fails how do you disconnect it from the traction battery? Does the traction battery power the contactors itself? Then what controls that? Not saying it can't be done -- it is -- but the engineer wonders how.

--Frank
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Daniel Levi

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Re: Battery-electric Road Vehicles and Energy Infrastructure
« Reply #56 on: June 08, 2021, 01:57:18 PM »

It would appear that the Ioniq hasn't got a 12V Lead-acid battery, it's a separate part of the traction battery pack.

Here's a video from Hyundai on how to get in and start an Ioniq with a dead 12V battery.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXVY1Isl31o
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Randy Pence

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Re: Battery-electric Road Vehicles and Energy Infrastructure
« Reply #57 on: June 09, 2021, 07:25:39 PM »

An elephant in the room with all of this is the need for people to drive at all. In western populations, too many live too far apart and necessitate large clunky objects on wide roads to do simple things like get to work or a loaf of bread. In our industry and others managing logistics it is unavoidable to use powered vehicles to transport gear, but it is totally possible to otherwise almost never need a vehicle by living in cities with adequate cycling and public transportation infrastructure. Having grown up in typical suburbs and then living in nyc and berlin for the last 23 years, it is mind-boggling how dependent living with more personal space makes having a car. I haven't driven in 18 years and have been absolutely stranded when visiting my family in the states.

Imagine all the resources used for personal vehicle transportation used for other things.
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Battery-electric Road Vehicles and Energy Infrastructure
« Reply #58 on: June 10, 2021, 12:37:23 PM »

An elephant in the room with all of this is the need for people to drive at all. In western populations, too many live too far apart and necessitate large clunky objects on wide roads to do simple things like get to work or a loaf of bread. In our industry and others managing logistics it is unavoidable to use powered vehicles to transport gear, but it is totally possible to otherwise almost never need a vehicle by living in cities with adequate cycling and public transportation infrastructure. Having grown up in typical suburbs and then living in nyc and berlin for the last 23 years, it is mind-boggling how dependent living with more personal space makes having a car. I haven't driven in 18 years and have been absolutely stranded when visiting my family in the states.

Imagine all the resources used for personal vehicle transportation used for other things.

This is something I have thought about often-and my dad even brought up-when I first moved to a house (and then purchased a house a mile down the road) 13 miles from town on a gravel road.  The road is now paved-though to get to work I drive roughly a mile on gravel every day.  The cost of driving to town, wear and tear on vehicles and tires has not been insignificant for sure-but it's a personal tradeoff I purposely chose that allowed me to raise my kids the way I wanted.  My house is nothing special-but I like not being able to see another house from mine.  Spooking deer out of my yard, or having a pheasant cackle as I leave the house is an enjoyable way to start my day.  For a number of years we raised our own pork among other things.  We have gone short periods of time without a vehicle at our immediate disposal-such as a trip to Washington DC a few years back where we relied on public transportation for several days.

To each his own-I'm glad those that enjoy the city/urban life have that opportunity. I understand there are a lot of people that end up living the way they do without purposely choosing it-but it's not my place to tell them how to live.
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Steve Swaffer

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Re: Battery-electric Road Vehicles and Energy Infrastructure
« Reply #59 on: June 10, 2021, 02:47:59 PM »

An elephant in the room with all of this is the need for people to drive at all. In western populations, too many live too far apart and necessitate large clunky objects on wide roads to do simple things like get to work or a loaf of bread. In our industry and others managing logistics it is unavoidable to use powered vehicles to transport gear, but it is totally possible to otherwise almost never need a vehicle by living in cities with adequate cycling and public transportation infrastructure. Having grown up in typical suburbs and then living in nyc and berlin for the last 23 years, it is mind-boggling how dependent living with more personal space makes having a car. I haven't driven in 18 years and have been absolutely stranded when visiting my family in the states.

Imagine all the resources used for personal vehicle transportation used for other things.

I live in the suburbs and like it here, yard, trees, dogs, space for my operation.  Compartmentalized living works for some, that's great - not for me.  I ride a small dirt bike on short runs in the area - Kawaskaki KLX140 - probably about as energy efficient as anything else.
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Re: Battery-electric Road Vehicles and Energy Infrastructure
« Reply #59 on: June 10, 2021, 02:47:59 PM »


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