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Author Topic: HDMI Buffer?  (Read 752 times)

Peter Kowalczyk

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HDMI Buffer?
« on: May 30, 2021, 12:26:20 AM »

Hey Folks,

I recently installed a projector and ran a 50' active HDMI cable to drive it. 

With the cable plugged directly into the source, it works great.  However, the design calls for a wall plate with a secondary HDMI patch between the source and the wall. 
Source > 6' HDMI cable > Wall-Plate Pass-thru > Active HDMI Cable > Projector

In this configuration, the system isn't reliable - the devices sync up for a moment and then falter.  It seems there are too many connections between the source and the active cable.

So, I'm looking for some kind of buffer.  I'm seeing some 'Active Wall Plates' that convert to Cat 5, or 'Voltage Inserter' dongles.  Any suggestions?

Thanks!

 
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Steve-White

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Re: HDMI Buffer?
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2021, 12:54:53 AM »

Is it difficult to pull the projector down for some testing?  I would try a different intermittent cable.  Did a system upgrade to the HT in the den a month or so ago.  Upgraded a mid 90's analog AV preamp to one with HDMI switching, multiple HDMI ins and outs as well as XLR analog audio outputs.

Did a split from the receiver to hit two TV's with an active splitter.  While getting things to work seems like I read that all HDMI cables are not the same - could have been interface protocols as in the hand shake.  The feed to the shop/patio TV goes through a wall plate that has a short pigtail on the back or shop side.  The HDMI cable to the TV plugs into it.  On the den side, a short run from receiver to the splitter, then a 30' to the den TV and the other side is a 5' to the wall plate.  Getting it all to work took some messing around.  There's also a feed from the video security DVR to the AV preamp so I can switch the outside security cameras to the TV's via the AV preamp.  There I had some hum to work out.  That was resolved with bonding the AV preamp to the rack with a ground wire.

Maybe someone else can give you a more direct answer.  But, I'd experiment with a couple of different cables and the wall pass through connector.

For multi-media I hack my way through until it works and stop - not much help.  :)
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: HDMI Buffer?
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2021, 04:27:07 AM »

Is it difficult to pull the projector down for some testing?  I would try a different intermittent cable.  Did a system upgrade to the HT in the den a month or so ago.  Upgraded a mid 90's analog AV preamp to one with HDMI switching, multiple HDMI ins and outs as well as XLR analog audio outputs.

Did a split from the receiver to hit two TV's with an active splitter.  While getting things to work seems like I read that all HDMI cables are not the same - could have been interface protocols as in the hand shake.  The feed to the shop/patio TV goes through a wall plate that has a short pigtail on the back or shop side.  The HDMI cable to the TV plugs into it.  On the den side, a short run from receiver to the splitter, then a 30' to the den TV and the other side is a 5' to the wall plate.  Getting it all to work took some messing around.  There's also a feed from the video security DVR to the AV preamp so I can switch the outside security cameras to the TV's via the AV preamp.  There I had some hum to work out.  That was resolved with bonding the AV preamp to the rack with a ground wire.

Maybe someone else can give you a more direct answer.  But, I'd experiment with a couple of different cables and the wall pass through connector.

For multi-media I hack my way through until it works and stop - not much help.  :)



Back in the day the cool kids used to out a NTSC cable modulator in and broadcast the security on unused cable channels.  I often wondered if the cable company had circulators in their splitters or if everyone on the two could watch their neighbors skinny dip in the pool.


What would be the modern equivalent of that?  Maybe an app for the DVR that runs on Fire and Android TV devices?
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Steve-White

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Re: HDMI Buffer?
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2021, 12:23:01 PM »




Back in the day the cool kids used to out a NTSC cable modulator in and broadcast the security on unused cable channels.  I often wondered if the cable company had circulators in their splitters or if everyone on the two could watch their neighbors skinny dip in the pool.


What would be the modern equivalent of that?  Maybe an app for the DVR that runs on Fire and Android TV devices?

I don't know Scott.  Maybe they took on that challenge and Drones were the result.  However, Google maps shows 1205 miles between Avon Lake, Ohio and Fort Worth, Texas.  Anything over 1000 miles is probably a safe buffer or DMZ distance between the two of us.  I see the axiom "don't let him get bored" applied to you as well.

Oh the chaos we could create.  :)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 12:39:41 PM by Steve-White »
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Steve-White

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Re: HDMI Buffer?
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2021, 12:31:06 PM »

Hey Folks,

I recently installed a projector and ran a 50' active HDMI cable to drive it. 

With the cable plugged directly into the source, it works great.  However, the design calls for a wall plate with a secondary HDMI patch between the source and the wall. 
Source > 6' HDMI cable > Wall-Plate Pass-thru > Active HDMI Cable > Projector

In this configuration, the system isn't reliable - the devices sync up for a moment and then falter.  It seems there are too many connections between the source and the active cable.

So, I'm looking for some kind of buffer.  I'm seeing some 'Active Wall Plates' that convert to Cat 5, or 'Voltage Inserter' dongles.  Any suggestions?

Thanks!

To give you a little more to go on.  HDMI signal protocols are bi-directional, possibly on more than one feature.  For instance the video resolution is cranked up at the source end (manually or automatically) increasing resolution.  Each step as it increments to higher resolution and bandwidth, the hand-shake with the destination device is sent and received by the source confirming compatibility or capability to process the new higher level of resolution.  if the signal is not received or a fault signal is detected, the resolution will be backed down a step and device will await the green or go signal from the destination device.

It may not work exactly as I laid out, but something like that.  There are hand-shake signal protocols around maximum screen resolution and such.  Probably for the audio as well.

The hand-shake element can be interfered with by many things.  Signal level being too low, or shielding issues, ground loops, ground loops from poor cable design/manufacture/condition and so on.  Dirty contacts in the connectors.

Wade through that by process of elimination to try and determine the issue.

Reading the title of thread "HDMI Buffer" kinda threw me.  Thought it would be some purpose in the signal chain.  Not that it's incorrect by any means, but my initial thought.

A simple active splitter could probably be considered a buffer as well.  Try one out, they are inexpensive and can be found on Amazon.  I use one of these in my setup:  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B005HXFARS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

There could be impedance differences in the two cables you are using, and the source drivers can't overcome it.  Lots of possible issues - initiate "Swaptronics" troubleshooting protocols.

I searched to Active HDMI Splltter Wall Plate:  https://www.crutchfield.com/p_297TXIWKT/Simplified-MFG-TXIWKT.html

Good luck with it
« Last Edit: July 09, 2021, 02:49:17 PM by Steve-White »
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: HDMI Buffer?
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2021, 04:02:43 PM »

50 feet is pretty much at the limit for an HDMI cable, in perfect conditions.  Have you tried a fiber version?  You get much greater distance.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2021, 05:05:02 PM by Dave Garoutte »
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Steve-White

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Re: HDMI Buffer?
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2021, 07:23:33 PM »

50 feet is pretty much at the limit for an HDMI cable  Have you tried a fiber version?  You get much greater distace.

^ This.

https://hdmitechnologies.com/hdmi-cable-max-length/
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: HDMI Buffer?
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2021, 09:30:17 PM »

All HDMI cables are not created equal.  All 10baseT converters are not created equal.  All optical fibre HDMI cables are not created equal.

Caveat emptor.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: HDMI Buffer?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2021, 11:05:31 PM »

Extron and Kramer make active wall plates.

It sound like you hit the max length limit, the wall plate pass through connector is probably the make break issue.
The mid level grade fiber HDMI cables I've used all have worked great.

Peter Kowalczyk

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Re: HDMI Buffer?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2021, 12:00:26 PM »

Thanks folks,

I've ordered some HDMI <> Cat converters to try out; will look into fiber as well.  Appreciate the info!

P
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Re: HDMI Buffer?
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2021, 12:00:26 PM »


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