ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: Microdot to 1/8" adapters  (Read 1022 times)

Justice C. Bigler

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2648
  • back home in Oklahoma
    • My homepage
Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« on: May 18, 2021, 06:39:09 PM »

Is there any reason that the Microdot to 1/8" adapter from Tentacle Sync Systems would have a different output level than the same one from DPA?


I have a DPA 4099S for my saxophone, connected to my Rode Wireless Go II for my camera. Even at the lowest gain level (-30db) and with the pad engaged on the transmitter, I'm still blowing out the input and hard clipping the signal. I'm not even playing that loud. I have the Tentacle Sync version because it was $70 less expensive than the DPA one.


But, there's no active electronics or pads built into those adapters are there? Just a straight through wiring? Or are there?
Logged
Justice C. Bigler
www.justicebigler.com

Helge A Bentsen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1250
  • Oslo, Norway.
Re: Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2021, 07:36:56 PM »

Is there any reason that the Microdot to 1/8" adapter from Tentacle Sync Systems would have a different output level than the same one from DPA?


I have a DPA 4099S for my saxophone, connected to my Rode Wireless Go II for my camera. Even at the lowest gain level (-30db) and with the pad engaged on the transmitter, I'm still blowing out the input and hard clipping the signal. I'm not even playing that loud. I have the Tentacle Sync version because it was $70 less expensive than the DPA one.


But, there's no active electronics or pads built into those adapters are there? Just a straight through wiring? Or are there?

Depends on the adapter.
DPA have resistors in some and different pinout/wiring in all models. They are custom designed to the listed WL system.

My experience is that buying the correct adapter from DPA for your wireless is the easiest and safest solution.


Edit: If you look at DPAs homepage you'll find three different 1/8" to microdot adapters. They are not interchangeable.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 07:39:45 PM by Helge A Bentsen »
Logged

Russell Ault

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1379
  • Edmonton, AB
Re: Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2021, 07:56:03 PM »

Without knowing either the TRACK E Timecode Audio Recorder's or the Wireless Go II's input wiring (and neither Tentacle Sync Systems nor Rode seem to publish that information) it's difficult to say for sure what you have or what you need. A multimetre might tell you how your current adapter is wired (the most common addition to these adapters is tying things to ground through a resistor). DPA does publish wiring diagrams for their 1/8" adapters (some of which have resistors built in, others not) if you can figure out which one you need.

That said, if my math is right, even wired correctly you'd only need about 118 dB SPL at the microphone for the 4099 to produce -20 dBV, which is the stated maximum input for the Wireless Go II. Padding the signal down passively might be a challenge because the you're already under-powering the microphone slightly with only 4V plug-in power.

-Russ
Logged

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6411
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2021, 10:42:07 PM »

Is there any reason that the Microdot to 1/8" adapter from Tentacle Sync Systems would have a different output level than the same one from DPA?


I have a DPA 4099S for my saxophone, connected to my Rode Wireless Go II for my camera. Even at the lowest gain level (-30db) and with the pad engaged on the transmitter, I'm still blowing out the input and hard clipping the signal. I'm not even playing that loud. I have the Tentacle Sync version because it was $70 less expensive than the DPA one.


But, there's no active electronics or pads built into those adapters are there? Just a straight through wiring? Or are there?


Can I make a purple microdot joke?  I guess I already did.  I had never heard of that connector.
Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Justice C. Bigler

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2648
  • back home in Oklahoma
    • My homepage
Re: Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2021, 02:53:29 PM »


Can I make a purple microdot joke?  I guess I already did.  I had never heard of that connector.
You've never used DPA lavalier or instrument mics?
Logged
Justice C. Bigler
www.justicebigler.com

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6411
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2021, 04:56:35 PM »

You've never used DPA lavalier or instrument mics?


Sure, didn't know that's what they are called!



Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Russell Ault

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1379
  • Edmonton, AB
Re: Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2021, 05:37:33 PM »

You've never used DPA lavalier or instrument mics?

In fairness, DPA does offer their lavs with other connectors, although I think the 4099 is Microdot only.

{...} I have a DPA 4099S for my saxophone {...}

Something just dawned one me: is this the 4099 Loud SPL (with the red marking) or the 4099 Extreme SPL (with the yellow marking)? The Extreme SPL version is 10 dB less sensitive, which might help your problem?

-Russ
Logged

Scott Holtzman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6411
  • Ghost AV - Avon Lake, OH
    • Ghost Audio Visual Systems, LLC
Re: Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2021, 06:19:25 PM »

In fairness, DPA does offer their lavs with other connectors, although I think the 4099 is Microdot only.

Something just dawned one me: is this the 4099 Loud SPL (with the red marking) or the 4099 Extreme SPL (with the yellow marking)? The Extreme SPL version is 10 dB less sensitive, which might help your problem?

-Russ


I don't actually have any instrument or LAV, just the headworn models

Logged
Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
Cleveland OH
www.ghostav.rocks

Justice C. Bigler

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2648
  • back home in Oklahoma
    • My homepage
Re: Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2021, 09:48:45 PM »

Something just dawned one me: is this the 4099 Loud SPL (with the red marking) or the 4099 Extreme SPL (with the yellow marking)? The Extreme SPL version is 10 dB less sensitive, which might help your problem?
Mine is the loud version, with the red band. Don't think I'm going to go out and buy another $600 mic for this one transmitter.
Logged
Justice C. Bigler
www.justicebigler.com

Chris Hindle

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2206
  • Montreal, Quebec, Canada, Earth, Sol System,......
Re: Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2021, 08:48:18 AM »

Mine is the loud version, with the red band. Don't think I'm going to go out and buy another $600 mic for this one transmitter.
Although it might be the "Right Tool For The Job".........
Chris.
Logged
Ya, Whatever. Just throw a '57 on it, and get off my stage.

Russell Ault

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1379
  • Edmonton, AB
Re: Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2021, 10:20:00 AM »

Although it might be the "Right Tool For The Job".........

I'm sure I've used the red 4099 on a saxophone before without issues (despite being 10 dB less sensitive, the Extreme SPL version only has ~6 dB more headroom); besides, for those prices, it might be cheaper to replace the wireless!

-Russ
Logged

Helge A Bentsen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1250
  • Oslo, Norway.
Re: Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2021, 12:28:52 PM »

The 4099 loud SPL has SIGNIFICANT more headroom than the old 4099 high sens. New Core-preamp in the back of the capsule results in almost as much headroom as the old 4099 low sens.  So you can get away with more input on the lower SPL rated  4099  today than you used to be able to do.

I'd say that if the mic doesn't distort if you run it with a cable directly to the desk, it's not the mics fault. But I would test that first before I consider other options.


Logged

Chris Hindle

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2206
  • Montreal, Quebec, Canada, Earth, Sol System,......
Re: Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2021, 12:33:03 PM »

I'm sure I've used the red 4099 on a saxophone before without issues (despite being 10 dB less sensitive, the Extreme SPL version only has ~6 dB more headroom); besides, for those prices, it might be cheaper to replace the wireless!

-Russ
Russ, you mentioned it up-thread. I'd be willing that the Phantom is not quite enough to supply what the mic needs.
Wouldn't that give a lot of "ugly" to the signal?
Chris.
Logged
Ya, Whatever. Just throw a '57 on it, and get off my stage.

Justice C. Bigler

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2648
  • back home in Oklahoma
    • My homepage
Re: Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2021, 01:23:46 PM »

I have the correct mic for my saxophone and the other applications that I use it for. Even at my loudest, and I can keep up with a Marshall half stack just by myself, I'm not much beyond 100db, playing right into the mic or db meter. I'm sure the issue is more that the Rode Wireless Go is built for speech and not instrument playing, and that I may need the DPA Microdot adapter rather than the Tentacle Sync version. There must be some kind of resistor or pad built into the DPA one.

When I started this experiment, I expected my saxophone to have a low output, because the Rode can't supply the require minimum 5v plug in power to the mic. So I expected it to be a lower output (which I can raise in post if I need to), rather than hotter: the gain set to -30db and the pad engaged still clips the preamp on the Go II transmitter. And I have to play at a pianissimo to get the level where I would want it and not clip. Obviously I can't play pianissimo all the time.
Logged
Justice C. Bigler
www.justicebigler.com

Scott Helmke

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1782
Re: Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2021, 01:57:35 PM »

The microphone element itself uses very little power, but the actual voltage available will affect the headroom.  If you wanted to try something cheap, you could build a little circuit to run the 4099 from a 9v battery and pad the output down a little to match your wireless.
Logged

Art Welter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1938
Re: Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« Reply #15 on: May 21, 2021, 02:29:02 PM »

Even at my loudest, and I can keep up with a Marshall half stack just by myself, I'm not much beyond 100db, playing right into the mic or db meter.

When I started this experiment, I expected my saxophone to have a low output, because the Rode can't supply the require minimum 5v plug in power to the mic. And I have to play at a pianissimo to get the level where I would want it and not clip.
Justice,

Most sax players I've worked with have similar levels at the mic as vocalists. 100dB seems quite low, I can easily sustain over 120dBC (slow) with my lips near a dB meter mic, 100dB at a "conversational" level.

That issue aside, I'd assume the DPA 4099S  uses an internal DC/DC converter to increase lower voltage to near 48v needed for it's 142dB input capability at clipping.
If not provided with the minimum 5v it needs (inline resistors may also reduce voltage) the mic PSU would be starved, clipping at very low input level.
Phantom power voltage below the minimum level would not reduce output level until it clips (hard, at anything above pianissimo).
Reducing level downstream at the recorder input wouldn't change clipping caused by a starved mic PSU.

Scott's outboard PSU suggestion makes sense.

You could check if the mic PSU is starved close micing a small speaker playing a sine wave while advancing levels listening to the recorder output, if its a PSU voltage issue it will sound the same until onset of clipping regardless of the  -30dB pad switch setting.

Art

« Last Edit: May 21, 2021, 02:50:23 PM by Art Welter »
Logged

Scott Helmke

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1782
Re: Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2021, 03:46:03 PM »

I've had some DPA 4066 headset capsules apart (they were not repairable and I was curious), and there wasn't anything except a FET.  I haven't been inside any of the newer Core products, but I doubt they've added any circuitry. The FET would be chosen to provide a clean output at the desired level and within the voltage range allowed by the power supply (usually 5 volts).  Not a problem for a decent wireless pack or purpose-built XLR interface.
Logged

Russell Ault

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1379
  • Edmonton, AB
Re: Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2021, 01:06:44 AM »

{...} There must be some kind of resistor or pad built into the DPA one. {...}

As Helge mentioned, DPA sells a couple different 1/8"-Microdot adapters. The Sennheiser-oriented one is a straight pass-through with the ring left NC; the Sony-oriented one does have a resistor built in (although without knowing offhand how the Sony packs are pinned out I can't tell you what that resistor is actually doing). Mercifully, DPA publishes the schematics for all their Microdot adapters.

Most sax players I've worked with have similar levels at the mic as vocalists. 100dB seems quite low, I can easily sustain over 120dBC (slow) with my lips near a dB meter mic, 100dB at a "conversational" level. {...}

This was my sense of it, too; the inverse square law does some pretty wacky things when you go from 1 m to 1 cm. Even so, the red 4099 should be just fine on a saxophone.

-Russ
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Microdot to 1/8" adapters
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2021, 01:06:44 AM »


Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.041 seconds with 18 queries.