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[Al Rettich]

has all of our gear been updated and working for big sur?

[Riley Casey]

Well that would depend on what gear you're using. I know that Audinate just released a Big Sur ready version of DVS that is NOT ready for the new Apple hardware, only Big Sur on Intel.  My usual caveat is that OS moves on Apple devices should be driven by some 'must have' change in your computer use, not just because it's the new and shiny. Apple is in the business of making media consumption devices for the general public, not professional audio production and control devices.

has all of our gear been updated and working for big sur?

[Al Rettich]

was just thinking in general.

Well that would depend on what gear you're using. I know that Audinate just released a Big Sur ready version of DVS that is NOT ready for the new Apple hardware, only Big Sur on Intel.  My usual caveat is that OS moves on Apple devices should be driven by some 'must have' change in your computer use, not just because it's the new and shiny. Apple is in the business of making media consumption devices for the general public, not professional audio production and control devices.

[Andrew Broughton]

was just thinking in general.

You should stop that, then.

[Jeff Lelko]

I know that Audinate just released a Big Sur ready version of DVS that is NOT ready for the new Apple hardware, only Big Sur on Intel. 

This is a point that I think needs more attention.  Big Sur is one thing, but as Macs transitions from Intel to Apple Silicon we will definitely see some teething issues - both with hardware and with software.  Especially given how niche many of our professional solutions are I'm not expecting a fix overnight either. 

I'm planning to get at least one more iMac in the next few months while the Intel flavor is still available...  That way my iMac/MacbookPro inventory stays consistent and I can avoid the whole mess for at least another few years while Apple Silicon matures.  I'd suggest anyone who runs an Apple ecosystem and forecasts needing new hardware in the next year or so to do the same.   

[John L Nobile]

I'm planning to get at least one more iMac in the next few months while the Intel flavor is still available..

Been an Apple user since 1984. When my iMac dies, I'm replacing it with a PC.

[Jeff Lelko]

Been an Apple user since 1984. When my iMac dies, I'm replacing it with a PC.

I can’t fault you for that.  For the longest time I was strictly Windows.  Between the bugs and nuisances with Windows 10 and my adopting Allen & Heath equipment that’s only compatible with iOS (first QU and now dLive) I moved my whole ecosystem to Apple.  I’ve been generally happy with the change but I’m in no way saying Apple is perfect.  Tastes change, and maybe someday I’ll be back on Windows!

[Brian Jojade]

The good thing about Apple is that they continue to improve their operating system from security standpoints that make them harder and harder for hackers to target.  The bad thing is that every change typically means developers need to keep up and change their systems to work with what Apple releases.

The problem is that the life cycle of an Mac operating system is only 3 years maximum before they stop supporting it completely.  With iOS, it's only one year, and devices can't be downgraded once upgraded (easily), so apps that once worked could break with any update.

While Apple does roadmap their plans for developers so they know the steps that need to be taken for their software, the problem is, once a product is developed, many manufacturers move on to new products vs maintaining software updates for the old, since maintaining old products isn't generating new revenue.

What this means is that the life cycle for products that rely on Apple devices continues to become shorter and shorter, which really sucks.

The same thing does happen in the PC world, but at least there you usually have options to run older (potentially less secure) software.  Apple likes to pretend the old stuff never existed in the first place.  With Macs becoming more and more iOS like, you can be sure that they will start to follow that same trend.

I've been a mac guy for decades, but more and more, I've been moving to alternatives for stuff that I want to have stick around for longer.

[Russell Ault]

{...} I've been a mac guy for decades, but more and more, I've been moving to alternatives for stuff that I want to have stick around for longer.

In my world the single largest requirement for MacOS is QLab. Given what you've described (which I agree with) I wonder how much longer it'll be before Figure 53 bites the bullet and finds a different platform for their software (if only CoreAudio wasn't so darned good...).

-Russ

[Scott Hofmann]

Been an Apple user since 1984. When my iMac dies, I'm replacing it with a PC.

You might be waiting for a long time.

[Stephen Swaffer]

I see many of the same issues-whether it be Macs, or PCs-in the industrial world as well.  We use machines for 5-10-15 years, yet the software is no longer supported long before the machine is worn out.  I feel like a lot of it is a conflict in markets and targeting.

A home/consumer audio system is much different than a professional system-which is different than a commercial paging system.  You would find the same parallel in vehicles.

The consumer market drives most of the Apple/IOS and even PC development-but we try to use them for professional applications.  Less so with the PC's because there are different computer manufacturers, so if you need a PC with good "real work" connectivity you can find it.  With Apple, you are stuck with hanging dongles off everything-which to me, in a prodcution/live environment is a huge potential piint of failure.

[Tim McCulloch]

I see many of the same issues-whether it be Macs, or PCs-in the industrial world as well.  We use machines for 5-10-15 years, yet the software is no longer supported long before the machine is worn out.  I feel like a lot of it is a conflict in markets and targeting.

A home/consumer audio system is much different than a professional system-which is different than a commercial paging system.  You would find the same parallel in vehicles.

The consumer market drives most of the Apple/IOS and even PC development-but we try to use them for professional applications.  Less so with the PC's because there are different computer manufacturers, so if you need a PC with good "real work" connectivity you can find it.  With Apple, you are stuck with hanging dongles off everything-which to me, in a prodcution/live environment is a huge potential piint of failure.

Pretty much, yeah.  Everything that is not a consumer feature that gets re-purposed for external use requires some level of special cables, docks, interfaces, and ritual sacrifice.  Apple requires more. of those...

I remember when the Cupertino Mothership actively supported the creative and arts market segment.  Perhaps because at that time, nobody else was doing so... but now that market depends almost exclusively on 3rd party developers who come up with interesting ways to make the hardware do what they need.

[Jeff Lelko]

I see many of the same issues-whether it be Macs, or PCs-in the industrial world as well.  We use machines for 5-10-15 years, yet the software is no longer supported long before the machine is worn out.  I feel like a lot of it is a conflict in markets and targeting.

A home/consumer audio system is much different than a professional system-which is different than a commercial paging system.  You would find the same parallel in vehicles.

The consumer market drives most of the Apple/IOS and even PC development-but we try to use them for professional applications.  Less so with the PC's because there are different computer manufacturers, so if you need a PC with good "real work" connectivity you can find it.  With Apple, you are stuck with hanging dongles off everything-which to me, in a prodcution/live environment is a huge potential piint of failure.

I don't disagree but can also see the argument both ways.  You can certainly pay a company like Puget Systems to build you a fully-optimized PC for whatever application you can imagine.  Likewise you can buy a fully-spec'd Mac Pro and put that to work for you too.  I personally feel that the bottom line is that you no longer invest in computers for a 15-year lifespan.  I buy PCs for a 3-year working life and Apple products for 5.  True, my light board runs Windows 7 under the hood with a specialized PC and is going 7 years strong, but for consumer-driven products/software I feel that neither software nor hardware should be treated as a long-life item such as trussing or staging (and budgeted as such).

It definitely took a while for the Apple dongle mess to grow on me too (I now have a Thunderbolt dock integrated in my FOH rack that takes care of integrating everything), but I have yet to see any statistically higher rate of failure for anything dongle or not.  That said, I have a spare MacBook Pro or iMac running on hand for shows that matter in case the primary computer fails...similar to how I still travel with a Mackie 1402vlz3 in case my dLive acts up and I need a quick workaround to pass audio.  Not to get Mac started on bringing an entire spare sound system, but for certain things like consoles, computers, and cables where glitches are most likely to happen I bring backup when I can.  Just my two cents of course!

[ProSoundWeb Community]