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Author Topic: In the market for low playing, high spl, subs  (Read 1448 times)

Johnathan Cappers

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In the market for low playing, high spl, subs
« on: May 17, 2021, 12:56:35 am »

I'm in the market to grab some subs that play low and loud. I'm compiling a list of subs that have peaked my interest to grab a demo. Extension is most important for me and then SPL as I'm in a venue where the subs will mostly be installed for both theater and music work.

I was thinking a bout the BC218 (the BC415 seems to have more output, but the BC218 digs deeper and 2 benefits from forward directivity)
Some M-force cabinets from DAS
Kraken from Bassboss
RCF 9007
JTR Captivator 4000 ( not really a PA sub, but the extension is insane)

Any others I should put on my demo radar?
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: In the market for low playing, high spl, subs
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2021, 01:54:21 am »

I'm in the market to grab some subs that play low and loud. I'm compiling a list of subs that have peaked my interest to grab a demo. Extension is most important for me and then SPL as I'm in a venue where the subs will mostly be installed for both theater and music work.

I was thinking a bout the BC218 (the BC415 seems to have more output, but the BC218 digs deeper and 2 benefits from forward directivity)
Some M-force cabinets from DAS
Kraken from Bassboss
RCF 9007
JTR Captivator 4000 ( not really a PA sub, but the extension is insane)

Any others I should put on my demo radar?

Bassboss ZV28 - not as choked at high SPL as the Kraken.

Danley DBH-218-LC - it's a custom box, basically a 60" deep DBH with dual mouth positions.  The 'poor man's BC218'.  In multiples it plays down to around 24Hz.

If you really need 'deep' - not many subs will do really deep as well as the upper bass region.  That's where I'd play with something like BC415's for the bulk of the bass and the impact, mixed with ZV28's for the deep bass.  If you go this route, you'll need to make a list of 'deep subs' vs 'impact subs'. 

Danley TH-221 for the 'deep subs'.

Hennessey Battleaxe - has to be in multiples.

If you are open for DIY, there are a few more options. 
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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: In the market for low playing, high spl, subs
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2021, 06:13:04 am »

Fulcrum TS221
EAW SB2001 or Otto
Meyer 1100LFC
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Johnathan Cappers

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Re: In the market for low playing, high spl, subs
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2021, 08:29:29 am »

Bassboss ZV28 - not as choked at high SPL as the Kraken.

Danley DBH-218-LC - it's a custom box, basically a 60" deep DBH with dual mouth positions.  The 'poor man's BC218'.  In multiples it plays down to around 24Hz.

If you really need 'deep' - not many subs will do really deep as well as the upper bass region.  That's where I'd play with something like BC415's for the bulk of the bass and the impact, mixed with ZV28's for the deep bass.  If you go this route, you'll need to make a list of 'deep subs' vs 'impact subs'. 

Danley TH-221 for the 'deep subs'.

Hennessey Battleaxe - has to be in multiples.

If you are open for DIY, there are a few more options.

I actually am open to DIY, If I can get a few opinions of how the sub may sound before building it. The only reason I say that is because some subs look good on paper and measure a certain way, but sound terrible, but I've some decent wood working skills.  I've actually tried to hear a shootout between a TH221 and BC218 but nobody  seems to have the 221 nearby (miami). I am surprised to hear that the Kraken sounds "choked", I am wondering if it is because its port or vent limited? Possibly amp limiters?

 
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: In the market for low playing, high spl, subs
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2021, 12:35:44 pm »

The one thing to remember is the tradeoff.

With ANY sub, as you go lower, you get less output (everything else being equal)

It is roughly 9dB octave.

So you must really consider how low and how loud you REALLY need to go.  You have to give up something.

When comparing loudspeakers, the "simple numbers" can often be misleading.  Sometimes VERY misleading.

You REALLY need to see measured response graphs, in relation to input level to begin to be able to compare.

Without a response graph, you have no idea how low the cabinet can really go.
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Dan Mortensen

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Re: In the market for low playing, high spl, subs
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2021, 02:34:47 pm »

Bassboss ZV28 - not as choked at high SPL as the Kraken.


Somewhat OT comment regarding Bassboss, sorry I don't have more on-topic:

Looking into this a little, I see that David Lee is the designer of this box, maybe all the Bassboss boxes? He was at Bassmaxx when my AES Section hosted a listening party for big subs back in the 90's. He seemed like a good guy, and I'm glad he's still doing this.

He's been able to shave 6" off the two larger dimensions of the speaker, compared to the Bassmaxx B1, and add an internal amp, which seems nice.

Fun that "Bassboss" and "Bassmaxx" are so similar.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: In the market for low playing, high spl, subs
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2021, 03:03:59 pm »

Somewhat OT comment regarding Bassboss, sorry I don't have more on-topic:

Looking into this a little, I see that David Lee is the designer of this box, maybe all the Bassboss boxes? He was at Bassmaxx when my AES Section hosted a listening party for big subs back in the 90's. He seemed like a good guy, and I'm glad he's still doing this.

He's been able to shave 6" off the two larger dimensions of the speaker, compared to the Bassmaxx B1, and add an internal amp, which seems nice.

Fun that "Bassboss" and "Bassmaxx" are so similar.
They are the same company, just a new name.
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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Doug Fowler

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Re: In the market for low playing, high spl, subs
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2021, 03:26:50 pm »

Somewhat OT comment regarding Bassboss, sorry I don't have more on-topic:

Looking into this a little, I see that David Lee is the designer of this box, maybe all the Bassboss boxes? He was at Bassmaxx when my AES Section hosted a listening party for big subs back in the 90's. He seemed like a good guy, and I'm glad he's still doing this.

He's been able to shave 6" off the two larger dimensions of the speaker, compared to the Bassmaxx B1, and add an internal amp, which seems nice.

Fun that "Bassboss" and "Bassmaxx" are so similar.

He has been laser focused for a while now.  You can believe his measurements.

First iteration of his line array missed the mark, I have not heard the new one but the 3 way top box is fantastic. 
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Russell Ault

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Re: In the market for low playing, high spl, subs
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2021, 08:13:23 pm »

{...} Meyer 1100LFC

You can extend that further with the Meyer VLFC, which tops (not bottoms) out at 30 Hz. Biggest downside (other than the 135 kg weight) is that it's 208/240 only...

-Russ
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Johnathan Cappers

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Re: In the market for low playing, high spl, subs
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2021, 03:58:28 am »

The one thing to remember is the tradeoff.

With ANY sub, as you go lower, you get less output (everything else being equal)

It is roughly 9dB octave.

So you must really consider how low and how loud you REALLY need to go.  You have to give up something.

When comparing loudspeakers, the "simple numbers" can often be misleading.  Sometimes VERY misleading.

You REALLY need to see measured response graphs, in relation to input level to begin to be able to compare.

Without a response graph, you have no idea how low the cabinet can really go.

Yah, the problem is finding response graphs. Does anyone have responses of BC218, Meyers VLFC and 1100? I was trying to look on their websites to see what I'd be working with measurement wise to rule some out.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: In the market for low playing, high spl, subs
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2021, 03:58:28 am »


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