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Author Topic: What is it which makes a subwoofer "omnidirectional"?  (Read 2341 times)

Tim Weaver

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Re: What is it which makes a subwoofer "omnidirectional"?
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2021, 01:22:10 pm »

There used to be a better wave simulator out there that allowed you to draw in walls. It was excellent at showing the effects of room modes. I canít find that one anymore. Of course that was like 20 years ago that I remember using it.
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Mike Henderson

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Re: What is it which makes a subwoofer "omnidirectional"?
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2021, 01:36:01 pm »

There used to be a better wave simulator out there that allowed you to draw in walls. It was excellent at showing the effects of room modes. I canít find that one anymore. Of course that was like 20 years ago that I remember using it.

No worries, I got the gist of it even though it would have been crazier with obstacles in the way.

I had thought Art's sub was consumer. TBH I don't have desire or patience anymore to build speakers so I will need to look for one. I will do some research now that I have a better idea of what to look for and try to narrow down a few and will post back here. Appreciate the help!
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Tim Weaver

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Re: What is it which makes a subwoofer "omnidirectional"?
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2021, 01:46:09 pm »

No worries, I got the gist of it even though it would have been crazier with obstacles in the way.

I had thought Art's sub was consumer. TBH I don't have desire or patience anymore to build speakers so I will need to look for one. I will do some research now that I have a better idea of what to look for and try to narrow down a few and will post back here. Appreciate the help!

Yeah I get it. Unfortunately when you want to match a speaker to a very specific situation like this your choices get slim and expensive. The big manufacturers make money by selling lots of product to the biggest pool of buyers. That means if you want something outside of that specific product you need to either build it yourself, or shell out some big bucks for a niche product. Basic supply and demand.


If you can find an Audio Centron CE36 Sub for very cheap (and it should be very cheap) look into that. It uses a triple 12" design and I think (not sure, just guessing) it used a similar cone and surround as the Lab Sub driver. They had double stack magnets and a big rubber surround like the Lab12. These drivers were 16ohm each so 3 of them in a cab made a nice 5.3ohm cabinet (call it 4 ohm nominal) so you could hang each one on a decent sized amp for an easy load.

I owned some of these and they were impressive for what they were, although they are not considered high end at all.



*edit* and clearly make sure it has OEM drivers.....
« Last Edit: May 17, 2021, 01:50:55 pm by Tim Weaver »
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Art Welter

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Multiple subs in a small room
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2021, 02:34:29 pm »


I had thought Art's sub was consumer. TBH I don't have desire or patience anymore to build speakers so I will need to look for one.
JTR Speakers Captivator 212-Pro would do well for you, more upper output than my 2x12" LAB12 design,  and you could put foam blocks to cover a portion of the ports to lower the Fb from 42Hz to 36Hz (like my 2x12") or 30Hz like your SB1000. Lowering the Fb also make the frequency response more similar to the SB1000, falling LF response, "punchy" upper response.

https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5c253bba3e9dff0004ee21f4?_k=00lhwn

JTR also makes several other larger subs with far more LF output, though with 2-3 subs in a garage, you really don't need that much output, stuff will falling off the walls and out of the rafters..

Art
« Last Edit: May 17, 2021, 02:39:22 pm by Art Welter »
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Mike Henderson

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Re: What is it which makes a subwoofer "omnidirectional"?
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2021, 02:46:09 pm »


*edit* and clearly make sure it has OEM drivers.....

I looked at it but not for me I think. I am looking into smaller Eaw subs first. Tell me, is there any utility hardware or software I can use which can show at what Hz the bass in a tune is at on a continuous basis please?
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Mike Henderson

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Re: Multiple subs in a small room
« Reply #25 on: May 17, 2021, 02:49:35 pm »

JTR Speakers Captivator 212-Pro would do well for you, more upper output than my 2x12" LAB12 design,  and you could put foam blocks to cover a portion of the ports to lower the Fb from 42Hz to 36Hz (like my 2x12") or 30Hz like your SB1000. Lowering the Fb also make the frequency response more similar to the SB1000, falling LF response, "punchy" upper response.

https://data-bass.com/#/systems/5c253bba3e9dff0004ee21f4?_k=00lhwn

JTR also makes several other larger subs with far more LF output, though with 2-3 subs in a garage, you really don't need that much output, stuff will falling off the walls and out of the rafters..

Art

Ok thanks, will look into this.
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Mike Henderson

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Re: Multiple subs in a small room
« Reply #26 on: May 17, 2021, 04:37:16 pm »

Oh, one last guys which I only now remembered is to address the fact that when I had turned the SB1000 towards the side wall in the middle of the room, I did not get the same effect as the EV full range speaker. This is why I was focusing on omnidirectional speakers as both the EV full range and and Sub are described as omnidirectional and I have to wonder why the SB1000 did not give the same effect when placed in the same spot in same position as the EV Full Range?
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Art Welter

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Re: Multiple subs in a small room
« Reply #27 on: May 17, 2021, 05:13:23 pm »

Oh, one last guys which I only now remembered is to address the fact that when I had turned the SB1000 towards the side wall in the middle of the room, I did not get the same effect as the EV full range speaker. This is why I was focusing on omnidirectional speakers as both the EV full range and and Sub are described as omnidirectional and I have to wonder why the SB1000 did not give the same effect when placed in the same spot in same position as the EV Full Range?
"Omnidirectional" is a relative term, from 60 to 160Hz, any of your subs have some degree of directivity, while the SB1000  with it's cross fired 18" effectively make a driver almost double the size of your other subs, which will affect how those upper frequencies are directed and reflected. It is also 45" deep, creating a larger/deeper boundary than your other subs, which could affect the rooms modal pattern orientations.
That said, you may not have orientated the baffles of the different subs in the exact same place, direction and  vertical height in your room. It is common to see rather huge variations (+/-10dB) at various frequencies from 30 to 300Hz with position changes of only a foot or two (in either the sub position or your ears/microphone position) in small rooms.

There are literally dozens of free real time spectrum analyzers you can download to be able to see either the music content by frequency (in "real time"), or your speaker's measured response at different places.
Many can be put on a smart phone, if you keep the level under around 100-106dB to avoid mic clipping, you can watch the response change as you move around- use a "selfy stick" to reduce the reflections from your body affect on the response.



« Last Edit: May 17, 2021, 05:19:08 pm by Art Welter »
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John L Nobile

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Re: What is it which makes a subwoofer "omnidirectional"?
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2021, 05:39:58 pm »

How many SB1000's do you have in the garage? It used to be one of my favourite subs and handled a 75' x 100' room nicely with a pair of them for a show band.
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Mike Henderson

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Re: What is it which makes a subwoofer "omnidirectional"?
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2021, 08:14:16 am »

How many SB1000's do you have in the garage? It used to be one of my favourite subs and handled a 75' x 100' room nicely with a pair of them for a show band.

Only one but this is only an 8'h x10'w x25'L room so I think it's overkill for this small room and we all know that this Sub was not designed for this which is why I am thinking of trying the SBX220 dual 12". From everything mentioned in this thread it looks like I might fare better with this sub?

Since one can hear bass from all around a cab, does a cab put out sound waves from it's sides, back, top and bottom or only through it's front please?
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: What is it which makes a subwoofer "omnidirectional"?
¬ę Reply #29 on: May 18, 2021, 08:14:16 am ¬Ľ


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