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Author Topic: What is it which makes a subwoofer "omnidirectional"?  (Read 2862 times)

Art Welter

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Re: Multiple sub locations to even out room modes
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2021, 05:05:59 PM »

To be sure I understand the instruction, when you say "stuff the ports" you mean like fully clogging them with a towel then take them outside the garage and do the eq-ing?
This instruction would be for using your top cabinets, or the Bose or Sony which would be easier to move around than actual subs. None of those cabinets will tune well <30 Hz, but can be equalized flat for low volume testing as sealed cabinets.

I'm using a pair of 6.5" & 5" equalized flat to 30 Hz for my apartment "home theater" subs, they can do about 90dB at the couch before farting out, that level is all you would need to test sub location.
Don't forget the up and down part of the placement equation.

Art
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Art Welter

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Re: Multiple sub locations to even out room modes
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2021, 05:33:07 PM »

The idea is to "slow down" the air movement through the port. That makes it "seem" like a longer port (lower tuning) to the air that is moving through that port. An air filter type foam (open cell type) would be the best. 
Tim,

Not my idea.

Dave Gunness (among others) says that an aperiodic port design as you describe has almost no acoustical mass and is dominated by resistance, so there is essentially no Fb, it operates simply as a resistive leak that damps the sealed box resonance.

Do you have some data that says otherwise you could share?

Art


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Tim Weaver

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Re: Multiple sub locations to even out room modes
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2021, 05:52:26 PM »

Tim,

Not my idea.

Dave Gunness (among others) says that an aperiodic port design as you describe has almost no acoustical mass and is dominated by resistance, so there is essentially no Fb, it operates simply as a resistive leak that damps the sealed box resonance.

Do you have some data that says otherwise you could share?

Art


I see where you are going then. I was assuming your wanted him to block one port, or partially fill a port to lower the actual port tuning to get a little more extension.

An Aperiodic port is something I haven't thought about in a long time. Used to be able to buy those filtered vents to make a smaller "sealed" box with.



So yeah, Mike forget what I said about the foam and stuff. Art (who is a pretty fart smeller) wants you to stuff your port with a towel or similar, then use EQ to boost the low-lows to a satisfactory level. You won't be able to play it very loud, but you will be able to get a very deep response out of your speaker this way. Until you run out of EQ, that is. You could however use this rig to test placement in your space to see where it sounds best.
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Mike Henderson

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Re: Multiple sub locations to even out room modes
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2021, 03:38:44 PM »


So yeah, Mike forget what I said about the foam and stuff. Art (who is a pretty fart smeller) wants you to stuff your port with a towel or similar, then use EQ to boost the low-lows to a satisfactory level. You won't be able to play it very loud, but you will be able to get a very deep response out of your speaker this way. Until you run out of EQ, that is. You could however use this rig to test placement in your space to see where it sounds best.

I don't know if it would make sense for me to try this guys simply because I have only 2 spots available which is where both speakers currently are so I am stuck with the situation. The only thing which can change is if you have the speakers facing forward or to the side.

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Tim Weaver

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Re: Multiple sub locations to even out room modes
« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2021, 03:51:06 PM »

I don't know if it would make sense for me to try this guys simply because I have only 2 spots available which is where both speakers currently are so I am stuck with the situation. The only thing which can change is if you have the speakers facing forward or to the side.



Or that mysterious third diminsion. Yes, that's right. The thiiiiiird diminsion.....
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Multiple sub locations to even out room modes
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2021, 11:03:12 PM »



Or that mysterious third diminsion. Yes, that's right. The thiiiiiird diminsion.....


Tim I think Mike still has a processing issue, he has mentioned on numerous occassions when his friend comes by and "fixes" the DSP or crossover or whatever that things got better.  I don't think his drive is setup right.  The fact he is even remotely happy with the EV says something is seriously wrong, recall he replaced an SB1000 with the EV.  Before we bought our FBT/Meyer rig we used to hire an Aero50 with 20's underhung and SB1000's subs.  I can't even imagine the devastation if I tried to run an SB1000 in a two car garage, I mean seriously I would be concerned about structure of the building.


Whoever recommended the Dayton flat pack was a great on point economical option.  He can have a speaker with usable response below to close to 20hz.  But frankly if he likes the sound of the EV is that ULF extension what his goal is? 


Have you ever seen this companies flat packs?  They look interesting.  https://shop.gsgad.com/collections/martysub-by-gsg-flat-packs/products/full-marty-by-gsgtm-flat-pack-retail-pricing-single-unit-local-pickup-only  I have been wanting to put one together and try in my home theater.
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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Art Welter

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Re: What is it which makes a subwoofer "omnidirectional"?
« Reply #46 on: May 20, 2021, 05:18:43 AM »


May 06, 2021, 12:39:29 pm DJ Forum
So guys, in my Garage's DJ Rig I turned on my equipment as normal and no sound from my passive EAW Sub. So to test, I removed the cable and plugged into my EV Eliminator i Series 15" full range speakers and I cannot believe the bass I am getting from it..

May 07, 2021, 10:07:07 am
It is the cabinet's Speakon connector which is the issue. I will wait on my sound system bud to come across to fix it and at the same time we will look into the possibility of using the EV Full Range as subs.

Reply #6 on: May 16, 2021, 02:25:59 pm
One day last couple weeks I had turned on my system and no sound was coming from the EAW SB1000 Sub which is always at my back wall facing forward.
I then as first test plugged the speaker cable from the EAW into my EV's full range to test and was totally surprised the I was hearing the bass more evenly anywhere in the room and even at the one trouble spot which is right in front of the garage's side door.
Mike,

After reading Scott Holtzman's comments in reply #45, then reading some of your DJ forum posts, makes me wonder if you, or your "sound system bud" wired one of the SB1000's drivers reversed polarity, or failed to get a proper connection to one driver, or one driver was dead when you bought it.

Dual-amplifier EAW Subwoofers may be wired so a Neutrik Speakon NL4 connector's pin 1+ and 1- only connect to one of the drivers.

Any of the above possibilities would result in poor bass output, and odd polar/room response from the SB-1000, without even considering the room modes in your 8'x10'x25' garage.
 
Add in not applying SB1000 EQ processing and filters, Rane crossover settings, and amp bridged/mono potential FUBARs, and you still have a lot to sort out before buying anything.

Art   




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Mike Henderson

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Re: What is it which makes a subwoofer "omnidirectional"?
« Reply #47 on: May 20, 2021, 08:03:12 AM »

Mike,

After reading Scott Holtzman's comments in reply #45, then reading some of your DJ forum posts, makes me wonder if you, or your "sound system bud" wired one of the SB1000's drivers reversed polarity, or failed to get a proper connection to one driver, or one driver was dead when you bought it.

Any of the above possibilities would result in poor bass output, and odd polar/room response from the SB-1000, without even considering the room modes in your 8'x10'x25' garage.
 
Add in not applying SB1000 EQ processing and filters, Rane crossover settings, and amp bridged/mono potential FUBARs, and you still have a lot to sort out before buying anything.

Art

It's not at all the bass output of the SB1000 guys or any wiring or processing issues, it's dead spots at different places in that small room which is the issue. the room's acoustics Pandora's box issues is what I am battling. I had the same exact issues with the previous Sonic dual and and Cerwin Vega L36 subs. If this was an empty room then things would have been much better but all sorts of different objects placed along the back and side walls is further contributing to whole ordeal wreaking havoc with sound waves.

Also, this is only about bass with the Subs. I have zero issues placing Full Range speakers at the back wall.

Yes I love the sound of that SB1000 the most of all the different types of Cabs I have ever tried but that Sub was not designed for a one car garage as we all know. Yesterday I had put it in the middle of the room and cranked it up and it shook every inch of that garage but that is the only spot where I can get that effect and I can only hear the bass best when standing in front of it and not anywhere at it's side.

If I did not like heavy bass that much I would have looked for a good pair of Full range speakers which would give the heaviest bass with some throw but I could never find such a speaker.

@Scott
Just curios, what's the deal with that "flat pack" which would make it different from other Subs for "my" situation please?

Also, I am not "happy" with the EV's, as mentioned it does not give me the depth of the EAW, I was saying that they now give me more even bass at the different spots in room because of their placements and positioning.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2021, 08:11:36 AM by Mike Henderson »
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: What is it which makes a subwoofer "omnidirectional"?
« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2021, 08:13:00 AM »

It's not at all the bass output of the SB1000 guys or any wiring or processing issues, it's dead spots at different places in that small room which is the issue. the room's acoustics Pandora's box issues is what I am battling. I had the same exact issues with the previous Sonic dual and and Cerwin Vega L36 subs. If this was an empty room then things would have been much better but all sorts of different objects placed along the back and side walls is further contributing to whole ordeal wreaking havoc with sound waves.

Also, this is only about bass with the Subs. I have zero issues placing Full Range speakers at the back wall.

Yes I love the sound of that SB1000 the most of all the different types of Cabs I have ever tried but that Sub was not designed for a one car garage as we all know. Yesterday I had put it in the middle of the room and cranked it up and it shook every inch of that garage but that is the only spot where I can get that effect and I can only hear the bass best when standing in front of it and not anywhere at it's side.

If I did not like heavy bass that much I would have looked for a good pair of Full range speakers which would give the heaviest bass with some throw but I could never find such a speaker.

@Scott
Just curios, what's the deal with that "flat pack" which would make it different from other Subs for "my" situation please?


A flat pack is just the a kit to build your own, it's flat because the boards are shipped stacked.  Unlike the commercial subs you are trying this speaker actually has usable output at 19hz.  It's a bargain, just add glue and go!



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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

Ghost Audio Visual Solutions, LLC
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Mike Henderson

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Re: What is it which makes a subwoofer "omnidirectional"?
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2021, 08:36:27 AM »


A flat pack is just the a kit to build your own, it's flat because the boards are shipped stacked.  Unlike the commercial subs you are trying this speaker actually has usable output at 19hz.  It's a bargain, just add glue and go!

I am not seeing any reviews on this item or it's application? Also when researching this item I am also seeing "G sub" which I have come across many threads on it on other forums, why is that Cab so popular?
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: What is it which makes a subwoofer "omnidirectional"?
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2021, 08:36:27 AM »


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