ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: Has anyone every used Full Range Speakers as a Subwoofer?  (Read 976 times)

Mike Henderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 174
Has anyone every used Full Range Speakers as a Subwoofer?
« on: May 06, 2021, 12:39:29 pm »

So guys, in my Garage's DJ Rig I turned on my equipment as normal and no sound from my passive EAW Sub. So to test, I removed the cable and plugged into my EV Eliminator i Series 15" full range speakers

https://av.loyola.com/products/audio/ev-eliminator-i.html

and I cannot believe the bass I am getting from it, I mean serious "punch"! I am wondering if it would be safe for the speaker itself if I were to use it only as a Subwoofer? In my garage only I mean and not for any mobile use.
Logged

Keith Broughton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3528
  • Toronto
Re: Has anyone every used Full Range Speakers as a Subwoofer?
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2021, 01:43:19 pm »

If it works, and you like the sound, there is no reason to not use it that way.
I presume it is getting a low pass signal.
Logged
I don't care enough to be apathetic

Mike Henderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 174
Re: Has anyone every used Full Range Speakers as a Subwoofer?
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2021, 01:50:52 pm »

If it works, and you like the sound, there is no reason to not use it that way.
I presume it is getting a low pass signal.

I was testing briefly with the same cable from the EAW Sub which is coming from the bass Amp and LOW OUT from the Rane Crossover.

But should I disable the speaker's internal crossover and run a direct line from Amp to woofer or can I leave as is with the crossover and horn connected?
Logged

Brian Jojade

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1998
    • HappyMac Digital Electronics
Re: Has anyone every used Full Range Speakers as a Subwoofer?
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2021, 02:51:52 pm »

That speaker has an effective frequency response down to about 50hz.  The 'punch' you're hearing is typically around 80hz or so which is well within the speaker's capabilities.

Once you get below 50hz though, the speaker starts becoming less efficient, meaning you need to adjust the EQ to level it out. This also means you'd need to give the speaker more power.  As long as you're not overdriving the speaker, you should be ok, but you aren't going to get the same maximum volume out of the unit.  Also, you need to pay attention to make sure you don't physically cause damage to the speaker with lower frequencies.  It may be possible to damage the unit that way even if you don't over power it.

Running through your crossover and then the internal crossover on the machine isn't automatically going to cause problems, but the results may not be easily predictable.  If you like how it sounds, then great.

If you want a real sub with real sub performance though, you are likely better off getting something designed for that task.
Logged
Brian Jojade

Mike Henderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 174
Re: Has anyone every used Full Range Speakers as a Subwoofer?
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2021, 03:15:45 pm »

That speaker has an effective frequency response down to about 50hz.  The 'punch' you're hearing is typically around 80hz or so which is well within the speaker's capabilities.

Once you get below 50hz though, the speaker starts becoming less efficient, meaning you need to adjust the EQ to level it out. This also means you'd need to give the speaker more power.  As long as you're not overdriving the speaker, you should be ok, but you aren't going to get the same maximum volume out of the unit.  Also, you need to pay attention to make sure you don't physically cause damage to the speaker with lower frequencies.  It may be possible to damage the unit that way even if you don't over power it.

Running through your crossover and then the internal crossover on the machine isn't automatically going to cause problems, but the results may not be easily predictable.  If you like how it sounds, then great.

If you want a real sub with real sub performance though, you are likely better off getting something designed for that task.

GREAT, understood on all points, thanks. good to know I would not have to open it up to tamper with anything.

One more thing please and this is only a thought. I realize that when listening to a bass speaker you will hear a different tone of bass or get a different effect if listen from in front, the back or at the side of it.

Might it do any speaker damage "long term" if facing the cabs to the side walls of my Garage so when hanging out in the middle of Garage we will be heard the bass from in front of the side the Speakers?
Logged

Brian Jojade

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1998
    • HappyMac Digital Electronics
Re: Has anyone every used Full Range Speakers as a Subwoofer?
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2021, 04:50:25 pm »


Might it do any speaker damage "long term" if facing the cabs to the side walls of my Garage so when hanging out in the middle of Garage we will be heard the bass from in front of the side the Speakers?

No.
Logged
Brian Jojade

Mike Henderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 174
Re: Has anyone every used Full Range Speakers as a Subwoofer?
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2021, 06:20:36 pm »

No.

It's totally surprising to me that these two 15" full range speakers sounds twice as loud using it as subs as the EAW SB1000 dual 18 sub to begin with.

Yes as was known before, the placement of the sub in this crappy room is everything. I just placed the two 15's at the back wall facing forward and they sounded crappy but when I turned them to the side facing the side wall BIG difference. Only problem is they are rattling my shelves and ceiling with even lower bass, that's the amount of bass they are giving out when placed in that position.

The only thing I seem to have no problem with is when I run the full range speakers normally from the back wall facing forward. I am not understanding why a TRI-Amp system's sub is giving these problems and not the bass from the full range speakers running off a receiver when placed in the same spot?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2021, 06:28:07 pm by Mike Henderson »
Logged

Dave Garoutte

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2574
  • San Rafael, CA
Re: Has anyone every used Full Range Speakers as a Subwoofer?
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2021, 07:14:26 pm »

It's totally surprising to me that these two 15" full range speakers sounds twice as loud using it as subs as the EAW SB1000 dual 18 sub to begin with.

Yes as was known before, the placement of the sub in this crappy room is everything. I just placed the two 15's at the back wall facing forward and they sounded crappy but when I turned them to the side facing the side wall BIG difference. Only problem is they are rattling my shelves and ceiling with even lower bass, that's the amount of bass they are giving out when placed in that position.

The only thing I seem to have no problem with is when I run the full range speakers normally from the back wall facing forward. I am not understanding why a TRI-Amp system's sub is giving these problems and not the bass from the full range speakers running off a receiver when placed in the same spot?

Because the sub is going lower.  You're equating the low mids with the low lows (which are 'harder' to hear).
Logged
Nothing can be made idiot-proof; only idiot resistant.

Events.  Stage, PA, Lighting and Backline rentals.
Chauvet dealer.  Home of the Angler.
Inventor.  And now, Streaming Video!

Mike Caldwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2152
  • Covington, Ohio
    • Mike Caldwell Audio Productions
Re: Has anyone every used Full Range Speakers as a Subwoofer?
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2021, 10:23:43 pm »

I would be looking into why the sub is not working before these speakers meet the same fate.

Mike Henderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 174
Re: Has anyone every used Full Range Speakers as a Subwoofer?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2021, 06:46:54 am »

I would be looking into why the sub is not working before these speakers meet the same fate.

Great advice guys, thanks!
Logged

Mike Henderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 174
Re: Has anyone every used Full Range Speakers as a Subwoofer?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2021, 10:07:07 am »

I would be looking into why the sub is not working before these speakers meet the same fate.

It is the cabinet's Speakon connector which is the issue. I will wait on my sound system bud to come across to fix it and at the same time we will look into the possibility of using the EV Full Range as subs.

I tested again and I am getting the same bass now everywhere in the room with the EV's having them at the back wall and facing them towards the side wall.
Logged

Mike Henderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 174
Re: Has anyone every used Full Range Speakers as a Subwoofer?
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2021, 09:26:17 am »

It is the cabinet's Speakon connector which is the issue. I will wait on my sound system bud to come across to fix it and at the same time we will look into the possibility of using the EV Full Range as subs.

I tested again and I am getting the same bass now everywhere in the room with the EV's having them at the back wall and facing them towards the side wall.

One last thing on this speaker facing the side walls issue guys. Please see attached pic of the back wall of my Garage. I am thinking of trying the EAW sb1000 sub in the same position but right now those are the EV's showing on the bottom of the pic facing sideways between the 2 storage shelves. As you can see there is some space like maybe 10" on each side facing the shelves. Now if I were to place the EAW sub in that same way there would hardly be any free space on either side so might this be safe please?

https://i.postimg.cc/tgHPHHZq/IMG-2777.jpg
Logged

Tim Weaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2850
  • College Station, Texas
    • Daniela Weaver Photography
Re: Has anyone every used Full Range Speakers as a Subwoofer?
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2021, 04:55:53 pm »

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you aren't really hitting the volume levels where a true concert sub (SB1000) is actually needed, AND you are likely listening to music that doesn't need super low frequency response. Rock, country, pop, etc all peters out below 60hz pretty quick.

The reason the Humiliator sounds louder is because it is. It is a DJ cabinet and as such has a bump in the response right around where you'd want it for pop music. This makes them sound better than other speakers when you listen to them at Guitar Center. It is also useful if, say, you're a wedding DJ and use a pair of these and no subs. That would be plenty adaquate.

The Humiliators are also quite a bit more efficient than the big, long throw, giant magnet sub drivers in the SB1000. So they'll be noticably louder at 100 watts than the SB. The difference in the two is that the SB1000 could take 2000 watts, properly processed and limited all night long at a rap concert and not break a sweat. The humiliators would be a smoking pile of ash if you asked that of them.
Logged
Bullwinkle: This is the amplifier, which amplifies the sound. This is the Preamplifier which, of course, amplifies the pree's.

Mike Henderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 174
Re: Has anyone every used Full Range Speakers as a Subwoofer?
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2021, 06:37:14 pm »

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you aren't really hitting the volume levels where a true concert sub (SB1000) is actually needed, AND you are likely listening to music that doesn't need super low frequency response. Rock, country, pop, etc all peters out below 60hz pretty quick.

The reason the Humiliator sounds louder is because it is. It is a DJ cabinet and as such has a bump in the response right around where you'd want it for pop music. This makes them sound better than other speakers when you listen to them at Guitar Center. It is also useful if, say, you're a wedding DJ and use a pair of these and no subs. That would be plenty adaquate.

The Humiliators are also quite a bit more efficient than the big, long throw, giant magnet sub drivers in the SB1000. So they'll be noticably louder at 100 watts than the SB. The difference in the two is that the SB1000 could take 2000 watts, properly processed and limited all night long at a rap concert and not break a sweat. The humiliators would be a smoking pile of ash if you asked that of them.

That's a good explanation, thanks!
Logged

Tim Weaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2850
  • College Station, Texas
    • Daniela Weaver Photography
Re: Has anyone every used Full Range Speakers as a Subwoofer?
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2021, 07:19:31 pm »

That's a good explanation, thanks!

No prob.

More than a decade ago I worked at a big university. We had ancient Altec Lansing A5 clusters left, center, and right. It was 4 15" drivers in each cluster and since we hardly ever used the center I used to low pass it just to give me that extra little bit of thump for those shows where I didn't really need to roll out the subs and amps. It worked great, but you need to know the limitations of the gear and work within that.


That's also the place where we named our pair of Eliminators the "Humiliators". It was appropriate at the time. Still is probably.
Logged
Bullwinkle: This is the amplifier, which amplifies the sound. This is the Preamplifier which, of course, amplifies the pree's.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Has anyone every used Full Range Speakers as a Subwoofer?
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2021, 07:19:31 pm »


Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.021 seconds with 19 queries.