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Author Topic: Looking for experienced opinions on KS118 and SRX818  (Read 3663 times)

Russell Ault

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Re: Looking for experienced opinions on KS118 and SRX818
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2021, 11:08:13 pm »

{...} Some things I would deem necessary, like ear plugs, as an investment into the length of one's career...it can extend to speakers to some degree, but having used a dozen different QSC and JBL boxes over the years, I can't say I see it (or more so hear it) in this case.

Ah, I should have been clearer: the upgrade is that I carry custom moulds instead of disposable foam.

{...} but having used a dozen different QSC and JBL boxes over the years, I can't say I see it (or more so hear it) in this case.

That's totally fair, but that's also really getting into a "Ford vs. Chevy" sort of thing; heck, I've talked to people who dislike mixing on Meyer PAs (I believe the phrase used was "they're too technical"). I think Luke's point is that SRX does something for him (and clearly others too, given that he's not the only one who owns them) that K-series doesn't, and his advice to the OP in this regard is valid because the same may well be true for the OP too (or it might not; we just don't know).

I just don't think it's fair to say that SRX is a bad business decision, because not ever business model requires maximizing ROI to be successful (especially when the only shareholder also happens to be the only employee).

-Russ
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Scott Holtzman

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Re: Looking for experienced opinions on KS118 and SRX818
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2021, 12:57:42 am »

Isn't this a bit harsh? Let's face it, if all we cared about was ROI, none of us would be here: we'd have put our time and money into better valued, better paying, more stable careers/industries.

Asset-focused business models don't scale down particularly well. My freelancer sole proprietorship has never given any thought towards maximizing the ROI on my c-wrench, or my laptop, or even my Smaart license. Ideally I can manage these outlays in such a way as to ensure a reasonable PBP, but at the end of the day they are merely the tools I need to enable me to comfortably do the job I want to be doing at the level I'm capable of doing it at. I can (and sometime do) work with less, but having good tools always makes for a better day at the office.

My understanding is that Luke has done nothing more than expand on this basic approach: his PA is part of his "toolbox". He insists on bringing SRX to his gigs for the same reason that I insist on bring custom-moulded, filtered earplugs to all of mine: it makes for a better (easier, more comfortable, etc.) day at the office, and I can afford the outlay.

Asset-focused business models also tend to require a certain level of staffing. Managing ROI requires additional bookkeeping; maximizing ROI basically requires offering dry rentals, which means either doing a lot more of the "not coiling cables and pushing faders" work (which a lot of us don't particularly enjoy to begin with) or hiring someone to do it for your (which really doesn't scale down well).

Once a business grows to be a certain size I'm sure that ROI starts to become very import, but below that threshold (whatever it is) the concept is almost meaningless. Many of the things one has to do to maximize ROI aren't even possible at a small scale, at which point maximizing the personal comfort in (and, for that matter, enjoyment of) one's workŚwithin the bounds of affordability (i.e. whether or not it is economically justifiable)Śmakes quite a bit more sense to me.

-Russ

ETA:

It's all about perspective. The more business-savvy among the forum's members (i.e. the ones trying to maximize ROI) tend to assume that every sound provider also does dry rentals because maximizing asset utilization is key to maximizing ROI (and therefore not doing dry rentals is leaving money on the table). For them, dry rentals are truly integral to the business of "doing sound", and therefore it isn't a topic swerve at all.

Whether or not that's true for the OP is likely something we'll never figure out given that he's only made the one post. (As an aside, perhaps we should add something to the forum's rules mentioning that e-mail notifications don't work?)


I would go so far that a single operator running a rig and providing for bands in bars is not truly a business, it's a hobby that earns a bit of revenue to offset the outlay it takes to run those gigs.  His customers are not participating in the local market place, beyond whatever musicians cliques exist in that market.  Here we have 2 or 3 cliques and each one has a few sound guys that trust each other to an extent and they kill themselves on weekends, schlepping the gear, running the gig only to do it again.  It is truly a labor of love I think.  What else can you think when you work 10 hours with $10,000 worth of tools and $300 is the top pay rate?


Those same acts know who the business operators are and we know them because they play on our stages at festivals, fundraisers, sometimes weddings (though the wedding band guys are starting to stay out of the bars) they also know that we won't come out for even double of what they are paying and other than the fact that we bring 2 people essentially we provide the same product as the trunk slammers because there are some truly talented ones that have been doing this there whole life.  There are also a handful of folks that do this full time and they have get weddings and privates, they are more annoying than anything else as you will quote a wedding for $2500 and they will come in and do it for $500.00.  That's why I try and focus on stuff they don't have and would have to pay dearly for, uplights, pinspots, pipe and drape and staging. 


I think we always end up having these conversations when someone comes in that has been grinding over this gear or that and more than anything needs some emotional validation that they are spending their money on the right gear.  Truth being is if you own one system it should be something you like to run, that sounds good enough you don't have to work to make it sound well.  If I was to own one system and run it I would have SM-80's and TH-118.  They are way above the regular 12" point and shoot and would make me smile every time I turn it up.  Of course they should do that, with proper amplification they are 3 orders of magnitude more money.  They feel like it too when you run them.


One more spot on ROI.  Sometimes you have to buy stuff that doesn't have great ROI because you have to have it.  Several times I had to drive 500 miles to cross rent lifts because the ones I rent were out.  I said screw that and bought a pair of lifts.  They are still not paid out after 2 years but they are mine, maintained perfectly and never overloaded.  You just have to balance it out and know that some things you are buying because you need them and can afford them and you want to be seen as full service.  We used to have Wegner staging (still do actually).  It was OK, got the job done but I couldn't cross rent and walking across it vs. a Stageright deck is day and night.  When I had the opportunity I bought StageRight because I could and that was where we wanted to be.  Sometimes it's expensive to play in certain sandboxes.



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Scott AKA "Skyking" Holtzman

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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Looking for experienced opinions on KS118 and SRX818
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2021, 01:01:22 am »

And if you get +3dB "real world" output from Device X, compared to device Y, my preference would be to purchase Device X... but if I didn't, and I had any amount of inventory of Device Y or Z, and unless theyare absolute junk, staying in the same family makes more sense.

I like working with good tools.  Over the decades I can tell you that getting good sound from good gear is far easier that making good sound from lesser gear.  Loudspeakers and wireless mics are both "you don't get what you don't pay for" items.  Being frugal can make for a frustrating gig.

We have a little SRX in our inventory and for the most part, I like mixing on it.  I'll have an SRX-835 rig out tomorrow with SRX-712m passives for delays & fills.  :)  Gig related to university commencement exercises.

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Luke Geis

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Re: Looking for experienced opinions on KS118 and SRX818
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2021, 04:44:13 pm »

I have a particularly different business model than most people here.

Mine is 50% income from freelance and 50% income from my own gigs. I make more money doing my own gigs, but I don't want to deal with a warehouse, scaling to demands, and having employees. I cherry-pick my clients. I.E. I only work with the ones I want to for both freelancing and my own productions. To say that ROI or PBP is important to me is an understatement. I cannot lose money on the gear. I am only one man, so I can at most do 1 show on any given day. Where I perhaps differ in my purchasing decisions is that I want the best that I can get with the money I have to work with. Despite the ROI or PBP. As far as I am concerned, once a piece of equipment is paid for, it is no longer an expense and is only making money from then on out. 

You could say I am a service-based company, I don't do dry hire/rentals. I focus on quality first, from the gear to my talent. I have come to learn that my tools really are an extension of me. I want to be seen as one of the best, and to me, having the same quality of tool as everyone else doesn't really set you apart.

Could I make more money with QSC K series stuff? I don't think so. It goes for about $50 a box where I am at and every company in town has them... I make a $25 premium with my SRX stuff, and I spend less time tuning and tweaking to get the sound I want, it's practically turn-key, plug it in and go. I spend less time setting up, my clients are happy and I make more $$ per box, and my higher than average day rate ( for my area ) is justified.

I would say that anyone who comes here asking/providing for help on a purchase decision should be at least be receptive to every available option and opinion as to why X product and purchase decision is X, Y, or Z. I learn new stuff every day and if I find a product and learn about a business tactic that aligns better with my goals, I am down to accept, acknowledge and implement.
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Russell Ault

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Re: Looking for experienced opinions on KS118 and SRX818
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2021, 01:41:23 am »

{...}To say that ROI or PBP is important to me is an understatement. I cannot lose money on the gear. I am only one man, so I can at most do 1 show on any given day. Where I perhaps differ in my purchasing decisions is that I want the best that I can get with the money I have to work with. Despite the ROI or PBP. As far as I am concerned, once a piece of equipment is paid for, it is no longer an expense and is only making money from then on out.{...} (emphasis added)

Sorry to nitpick, Luke, but just to be clear, what you're describing is not ROI; it's closer to PBP. I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with taking a PBP approach to assets (especially for the smallest of small businesses), but I feel like the terminology difference is really important in this conversation.

-Russ
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Bob Stone

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Re: Looking for experienced opinions on KS118 and SRX818
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2021, 12:29:40 pm »

I have a particularly different business model than most people here.

Mine is 50% income from freelance and 50% income from my own gigs. I make more money doing my own gigs, but I don't want to deal with a warehouse, scaling to demands, and having employees. I cherry-pick my clients. I.E. I only work with the ones I want to for both freelancing and my own productions. To say that ROI or PBP is important to me is an understatement. I cannot lose money on the gear. I am only one man, so I can at most do 1 show on any given day. Where I perhaps differ in my purchasing decisions is that I want the best that I can get with the money I have to work with. Despite the ROI or PBP. As far as I am concerned, once a piece of equipment is paid for, it is no longer an expense and is only making money from then on out. 

You could say I am a service-based company, I don't do dry hire/rentals. I focus on quality first, from the gear to my talent. I have come to learn that my tools really are an extension of me. I want to be seen as one of the best, and to me, having the same quality of tool as everyone else doesn't really set you apart.

Could I make more money with QSC K series stuff? I don't think so. It goes for about $50 a box where I am at and every company in town has them... I make a $25 premium with my SRX stuff, and I spend less time tuning and tweaking to get the sound I want, it's practically turn-key, plug it in and go. I spend less time setting up, my clients are happy and I make more $$ per box, and my higher than average day rate ( for my area ) is justified.

I would say that anyone who comes here asking/providing for help on a purchase decision should be at least be receptive to every available option and opinion as to why X product and purchase decision is X, Y, or Z. I learn new stuff every day and if I find a product and learn about a business tactic that aligns better with my goals, I am down to accept, acknowledge and implement.


You keep ignoring the point....do you really think the OP should sell off a complete QSC rig to buy SRX boxes rather than just adding one more matching sub? Everyone has agreed the SRX is better and buying new when you have nothing it's probably worth it if you can afford it in your market (as you clearly can) but it's downright stupid to sell off gear for a lateral move. If he's upgrading, he should actually upgrade.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Looking for experienced opinions on KS118 and SRX818
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2021, 03:56:00 pm »

I think it depends how you read the OP post.

His first sentence tells us he wants to add a sub.
Then he tells us he is moving his K12's to monitor duty soon and... " I was going to get some KW152 or KW153, but having seen more experienced opinions on multiple sound forum sites I see that I would probably be better served by some SRX835 or SRX815 or SRX812 than by the KW153's at roughly the same price"....
I take that as he was going to spend money on sub(s) and tops anyway, so why not get the SRX?

BTW - where'd he go??
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Steve-White

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Re: Looking for experienced opinions on KS118 and SRX818
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2021, 06:30:59 pm »

^^^ Yes, where did he go?

Maybe he didn't know to come back manually to check for responses since the email notifications don't work or are disabled.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Looking for experienced opinions on KS118 and SRX818
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2021, 07:13:21 pm »

^^^ Yes, where did he go?

Maybe he didn't know to come back manually to check for responses since the email notifications don't work or are disabled.

I joined years ago and have NEVER had an email notification even though my settings are correct to receive them and always have been. I just check in every now and then.
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A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Bill Hornibrook

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Re: Looking for experienced opinions on KS118 and SRX818
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2021, 07:50:35 pm »


I take that as he was going to spend money on sub(s) and tops anyway, so why not get the SRX?

Based on Luke's post that you can get 812s for around 1K and 818s for 1.3k these days, yeah really! In fact after reading that, I'm seriously considering it myself.

Regarding the OP, he said it's for his band and occasionally others. But it's been interesting reading everyone's thoughts on ROI and stuff anyway.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2021, 07:53:24 pm by Bill Hornibrook »
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Re: Looking for experienced opinions on KS118 and SRX818
┬ź Reply #39 on: May 15, 2021, 07:50:35 pm ┬╗


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