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Author Topic: Opinions on my 3-phase Delta service  (Read 3577 times)

Jeff Bankston

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Re: Opinions on my 3-phase Delta service
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2021, 04:44:40 AM »

This is the 120/120/240 3 ph 5 wire service I worked on about 20 years ago. Voltage was 180v between each 120v leg and kicker leg. Voltage was 0 between kicker leg and ground and neutral. We dared each other to touch the kicker and ground. Nobody would.



« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 04:50:01 AM by Jeff Bankston »
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Steve-White

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Re: Opinions on my 3-phase Delta service
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2021, 09:41:53 AM »

This is the 120/120/240 3 ph 5 wire service I worked on about 20 years ago. Voltage was 180v between each 120v leg and kicker leg. Voltage was 0 between kicker leg and ground and neutral. We dared each other to touch the kicker and ground. Nobody would.

WTF?  I can't imagine what equipment could run on something like that.  The configuration is a standard Delta with 120V center tapped phase legs - but 180V and then 0 to ground is making my head hurt.  I'd have to look at that with a scope to understand it.
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Stephen Swaffer

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Re: Opinions on my 3-phase Delta service
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2021, 12:36:07 PM »

Good morning Stephen
High-leg (or wild leg) delta is both single (split) phase and 3 phase at the same time. Say A and B phase are 120V to neutral/ground, then C is 208V to ground (thus you cannot use C except on 3 phase loads). All legs are 240V hot to hot. Open leg Delta is even more interesting!
HTH!

I understand that-I missed that he had a high leg and knew it.  To me it would make more sense to wire a building like this with a 3 phase panel and a single phase panel and keep the loads in their respective panels.  Though, I suspect someone would eventually add a single phase to 3 phase panel just to keep it interesting.
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Steve Swaffer

Jeff Bankston

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Re: Opinions on my 3-phase Delta service
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2021, 03:32:50 PM »

WTF?  I can't imagine what equipment could run on something like that.  The configuration is a standard Delta with 120V center tapped phase legs - but 180V and then 0 to ground is making my head hurt.  I'd have to look at that with a scope to understand it.
My boss asked the power company and they said it will produce 240 3 ph with all 3 hots on a  motor. B ph was the kicker in the switch gear. The existing AC units on the roof were left in place. All we used were A and C ph for the power and lighting when the new tenant leased the store.
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drew gandy

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Re: Opinions on my 3-phase Delta service
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2021, 08:39:44 PM »

You could hook up a "nothing load" like a cell phone charger between the neutral and the high leg and it should work ok. But look at Steve-White's diagram. It tells most of the story. Any significant load hooked up that way is relying on the center tap of the opposite phases. It's vulnerable to fluctuations based on the balance of the loads on the "120v" sides of that center tapped winding. And it is loading those transformer windings in a way that the transformer is probably not rated for. It's just not a legitimate connection path.

Again, the neutral isn't a normal neutral like in 208 3Y or 120/240 single phase. It's sort of an ad-hoc neutral. I've understood that it was conceived as a way to provide a small amount of standard 120v circuits (for offices etc) in an otherwise industrial building where everything else runs off of 3 phase power.  And in my shop, where almost everything I have is hooked to that 120/240 side, it's an out of place system. That said, I'm not really disappointed.

I'm sure Jim Brown's paper on grounding talks about how the ground/neutral in high leg systems does not represent a balance point wrt to currents and I wouldn't be surprised if it tends to exacerbate the "conduit transformer" effect in installations. 

As always, I'm just an idiot on the internet. And I don't always remember things as correctly as I think I do. 
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Arrogance is usually far worse than ignorance. But every once in awhile they swap places.

Steve-White

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Re: Opinions on my 3-phase Delta service
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2021, 09:53:47 PM »

^^^ Yep Drew, the current would have lots of offset from imbalance.  In some cases that could be a problem such as noise in electronics.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Opinions on my 3-phase Delta service
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2021, 09:53:47 PM »


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