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Author Topic: Need to price house pa rentals  (Read 3004 times)

Craig Leerman

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Re: Need to price house pa rentals
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2021, 02:12:15 pm »


How much power does it take to run a full pro system for 500 outside?  2-20a circuits? 4-20a?  more?   

--Kevin

The PA company should tell you their power requirements as different systems will differ.

The questions you need to ask are:

Is the company licensed?

Is the company insured?

Will the company list your organization and event on their policy as ďAdditional InsuredĒ?

Does the company bring spares or extras in case something breaks?

What about if crew gets sick? Does the company have extra crew in case a guy gets sick at the last minute or are they going to cancel the gig cause the one person shop has the flu?

What experience does the company have doing an event similar to yours?

Those are the stuff you need to ask before worrying about power requirements.

 FWIW, my company would require a minimum of 4 circuits. 2 for the PA, 1 for FOH (front of house, the consoles) and 1 for the stage monitors. Add another for the bandís gear at a minimum. I would usually request a whisper quiet stable (crystal controlled) generator or provide my own genny for an additional charge. Other providers may need more or less power depending on what gear they would use.

Craig
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Need to price house pa rentals
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2021, 06:45:52 pm »

2) Events are far to small for guys to make a living from.
I am not a bottom feeder, but I am willing to work with my local community as we all rebuild. so while I might in 2019 have charged $1800- $2500 for a couple of these venues, if they tell me they need me at $800, I will be there with a huge conversation in advance about expectations going forward.

I tend to disagree with this tactic.  Just about everything is going UP in price.  My prices for events are not going to crater just to get work, even though I could definitely use it. In fact, prices have increased across the board.

If someone wants to host an event, and wants production involved, they have to do the math on how to make it work.  The cost of production per person does not scale well as sizes of crowds go down.  The smaller the crowd, the more it costs per person, and the less wow factor you end up getting.  That's how it is.

If the promoter thinks the smaller event will cost less per person to put it on, they need to be corrected in their thinking, because it certainly doesn't work that way.
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Steven Eudaly

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Re: Need to price house pa rentals
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2021, 08:40:48 pm »

I tend to disagree with this tactic.  Just about everything is going UP in price.  My prices for events are not going to crater just to get work, even though I could definitely use it. In fact, prices have increased across the board.

If someone wants to host an event, and wants production involved, they have to do the math on how to make it work.  The cost of production per person does not scale well as sizes of crowds go down.  The smaller the crowd, the more it costs per person, and the less wow factor you end up getting.  That's how it is.

If the promoter thinks the smaller event will cost less per person to put it on, they need to be corrected in their thinking, because it certainly doesn't work that way.

This is the way.

Mark Scrivener

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Re: Need to price house pa rentals
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2021, 01:51:57 am »

This thread made me think back to 1979 when I was in 9th grade. I had a band that played some local gigs (private parties, school events) and even recorded a demo in a studio. I was good friends with the drama teacher and one day she asked if I could provide sound for an upcoming school dance. I said sure, asked about the date/time, location (school multipurpose gym/auditorium), how many people (several hundred), and told her I'd get back to her.

When I got home I called ShowCo (our band had rented from them before), told them what I needed and got a quote. From what I recall it was some small ground stacks, a few power amps, a small mixer (so I could connect a turntable or two and a tape deck), cables and crossovers. I don't recall the price, but it sounded reasonable and was less that what we had paid for some of our gigs. No SoS or powered speakers back then, but ShowCo would deliver the gear and pick it up, and treated us super nice even though we were just kids.

The next day I gave her the quote from ShowCo - to the penny. I wasn't planning to make a dime, just thought my friends and I would have fun getting to pick all the music and maybe score some points with the girls. The drama teacher blew a gasket when she heard the number and went on a tirade, accusing me of "highway robbery" and a bunch of other stuff I can't remember. When she finally stopped ripping me up and down and calmed down enough to understand that I wasn't making any money and that was the cost from ShowCo she said "I though you would just bring your stereo and play records". I tried to explain that no home stereo system was going to be loud enough to be heard in a gym filled with several hundred kids, but she wouldn't accept it. I told her I couldn't help her and left.

That was the last time I ever talked to her. I only had a few months left at that school and went out of my way to avoid going near her class or places she might be. I was too young to understand the challenges of budgeting a large event, but I certainly understood the personal attack and accusations. And it taught me early on that some people are totally clueless about live sound and unwilling to pay a fair cost.....a battle that never seems to go away.

Heath Eldridge

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Re: Need to price house pa rentals
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2021, 07:46:10 am »

So I guess at this point let me ask a couple more questions:

1) How much power does it take to run a full pro system for 500 outside?  2-20a circuits? 4-20a?  more?   

2) can anyone let me know what "real" providers aside from Altel Sound (who I am already talking to)  do work and are reasonably local to Milford CT?


--Kevin

I am of the opinion, as someone else said here that you should hire some extra subs and do the gig.

If you are sure thatís not enough, you should give them the number of a professional and sit back and enjoy the show.

As a small ďankle biterĒ operator ive worked out that the worst thing to do is the cross renting, half and half job. Itís way more effort than using your own gear. And the sort of people who hire you donít want to pay for it anyway.
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Kevin_Tisdall

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Re: Need to price house pa rentals
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2021, 11:31:36 am »

I am of the opinion, as someone else said here that you should hire some extra subs and do the gig.

If you are sure thatís not enough, you should give them the number of a professional and sit back and enjoy the show.

As a small ďankle biterĒ operator ive worked out that the worst thing to do is the cross renting, half and half job. Itís way more effort than using your own gear. And the sort of people who hire you donít want to pay for it anyway.

I respectfully disagree.  I work for a Beatles clone band.  They did a show at Mohegan sun for 1100 people in a ballroom.  The venue hired a líacoustics line array and operators for the event (we were not the only act).  We brought in band gear and monitors and I mixed from my iPad sitting 100 ft from the stage.  It was wonderful, the sound company treated me and the band with courtesy and respect, and it went off without a hitch.

I have had similar experiences (long ago) with other needs for expending what I have.   

ókevin
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Matthias McCready

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Re: Need to price house pa rentals
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2021, 05:46:45 pm »


Itís way more effort than using your own gear. And the sort of people who hire you donít want to pay for it anyway.

IMHO if you are a small operator the whole point of cross renting should be to get gear that you don't have or cannot afford to own, as you wouldn't have enough ROI from your normal events to support them.  8)

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Brian Jojade

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Re: Need to price house pa rentals
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2021, 05:24:14 pm »

As a small ďankle biterĒ operator ive worked out that the worst thing to do is the cross renting, half and half job. Itís way more effort than using your own gear. And the sort of people who hire you donít want to pay for it anyway.

I disagree with this.  Cross renting is a way to have fixed costs for an event without huge cash outlay or storage hassles.

If I can cross rent, I almost ALWAYS take that option. If there's not a provider available, then I consider the purchase option.

Only stuff I use on a very regular basis, or can't easily rent is what I own.

Yeah, there are jobs where you can't make money off of the job by renting gear.  But if that's the case, how do you expect to make money OWNING that gear??  If you did own it, you'd make more cross renting it to someone else to use on another job than the job that doesn't pay.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Need to price house pa rentals
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2021, 08:26:52 pm »

So I guess at this point let me ask a couple more questions:

1) How much power does it take to run a full pro system for 500 outside?  2-20a circuits? 4-20a?  more?   

2) can anyone let me know what "real" providers aside from Altel Sound (who I am already talking to)  do work and are reasonably local to Milford CT?


--Kevin

Craig already hit many good points.

To answer your first question, in general I would want a 50amp 220 single phase service to tie or plug into.
That would get me into my small distro to break out the power from there.
That's better than running cords all over to grab outlets and there's real good change at an outdoor
location the outlets will be crusty weather beaten GFI's that will trip for no reason at all, if there working.

When shopping for a sound provider give them some solid information to go on, such as the bands tech info, stage plots, input list, ect. or at the very least who or what type bands they will be.

Just saying we are going to have a couple bands and need 4 or 5 microphones and maybe some lights
does not give us much to go on. With only that much info you may not get a quote, you may get one that's highly padded to cover the unknowns or just a base line quote that is open ended to cover extras as they are needed.

Also if it's a multi band event have the schedule set up to allow for band turn overs, for full bands.
30 minutes is a good starting point.

Steve-White

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Re: Need to price house pa rentals
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2021, 02:57:45 am »


I expected this shit storm.  Scold away.  I am so far below what you would even take as a job today it's not even worth discussion, so I won't.

I'm here because I respect all of you, I have enough experience to know what it takes to run a real business (I cant) AND when I can, like right now, I try to throw work to real companies.  So we can bitch about me or we can get on with trying to figure what I need and what it will cost for a real company to provide.

--Kevin

Internet Rule #1) Don't take any of it very seriously.  Many here have started out of the back of a pickup truck as has been freely acknowledged on many threads.  I did, actually it wasn't even a real pickup truck - a 1977 Chevrolet El Camino with a pair of Dual turntables and my home stereo system.  Did the "ankle biter" thing for 12 years and walked away from it into a career in Aerospace.

Today, it's incorporated with a business model and such.  The early days, to get from the back of the El Camino, to the International Metro van that was worn out, to a decent GMC truck was a steep climb.  Never got to fully legit after 12 years and with a partner that had other commitments in his night club, I decided to take the aerospace opportunity to bankroll the return.

I hear the same crap today that I heard 40 years ago, from the same mentality - ya run into that in life.  Never allow someone else to set your boundaries for achievement.  Even during COVID, there's never a shortage of naysayers.

Take the stuff ya like and leave the rest behind.  There's a wealth of knowledge on this site and facts are facts.

- Captain ShitStorm  :)
« Last Edit: May 02, 2021, 03:00:38 am by Steve-White »
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Re: Need to price house pa rentals
¬ę Reply #29 on: May 02, 2021, 02:57:45 am ¬Ľ


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