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Author Topic: LOUDspeakers  (Read 3348 times)

Kemper Watson

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Re: LOUDspeakers
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2021, 07:16:07 PM »

Cruising Dynacord's site it looks like it's cheap enough to put it the amplifiers. 

That's my theory, anyway. 

I'll wager you could hire someone to roll up a QRX FIR enabled preset, if you could process it.
.

Looks like you're right, as usual. FIR enabled 4 channel hi powered amps seem to the new trend. I think I still have some presets Phil Graham wrote for me in my first Xilica. I'll start there. Thanks for your time.


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Doug Fowler

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Re: LOUDspeakers
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2021, 07:26:12 PM »

.

Looks like you're right, as usual. FIR enabled 4 channel hi powered amps seem to the new trend. I think I still have some presets Phil Graham wrote for me in my first Xilica. I'll start there. Thanks for your time.

Even a broken clock is right twice daily...
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Dave Guilford

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Re: LOUDspeakers
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2021, 09:40:41 PM »

Maybe KV audio, Fulcrum?  There is nothing wrong with passive speakers, but if you are looking for new products, you are leaving a whole lot of great possibilities out of contention.

It’s all about weather for me. I do a lot of outdoor jobs and prefer to keep all my power in one place so the immediate “tarp over the rack” solution covers the most dangerous threat of weather.  Apart from that - I have my speakers all foam lined behind grilles to help against a light sprinkle.  No doubt they’ve all been soaked before, and power amp modules weren’t an issue because passive
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Kevin Maxwell

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Re: LOUDspeakers
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2021, 12:25:22 AM »

What Dynacord are you referring to?  I have a few QRX 212 I may be putting to work as well. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

I wrote this a couple of years ago but it still is applicable for today, I am editing it slightly.

The horns in the QRx-212 are 75x50 as they come from the factory. The 50 is 35degrees down by 15 degrees up, but the horns are square and can be rotated. I have been using 2-QRx-212 per side over 2 QRx-218 per side. The best thing we have done so far is to rotate the horns so the narrower dispersion is to the center on each pair. But you must be very careful as to be sure they are always properly paired. We have them numbered 1-4 and always deploy them starting with #1 all the way house left and then #2 to the right of it with the backs touching and the inner front edges 4 inches apart. Then #3 starts the house right stack with it to the center of the room and #4 to the right of #3, again with the inner edges 4 inches apart. EQ for linearity and you will find it sounds better than before.

This way with 2 you have 100 degrees wide by 75 vertical. With the horns in the normal configuration to get the horns to play nice when in pairs you had to splay the fronts too far apart and then the 12s didn’t play nice any more. I really think that with the horns splayed this way that they sound better. We didn’t need 150 degrees of coverage. I didn’t like these speakers used in pairs till we rotated the horns. Now I am happy with them. The other way to use them is the dual PA method, put 2 on each side of the stage and flat front them. Feed one on each side only the instruments and the other one on each side only the vocals. This also can work great if all you need it 75dgrees of horizontal coverage.

I could see hanging 2 of them sideways, one hanging from the other with the horns rotated like I mention above. You would just need to splay the front of the boxes like I said about 4” apart. But it would look like you are trying to do a 2 box line array but I think it would work as long as you realize it isn’t a line array. 

We have been running them passive using 2 QSC PLX3602 amps with one amp channel per QRx-212. With a DBX DR4800 processor handling the crossover between the tops and the subs and some system EQ. I got a EV Dx46 processor and EV sent me the file for the FIR filters for these boxes, but I haven’t had enough time yet with the system set up to incorporate it into the system. When we tried to test it out with the Dx46 the same thing happened a couple of times. We got to the concert location early (outdoors) but I ran out of time to tweak it to my satisfaction, I am real fussy. The band showed up early and I didn’t think I could get everything done in the time I had left. So we went back to the DBX DR4800 which doesn’t sound bad at all to do the show, because we have all the setting already in there that we have been using for a while. When testing it with the Dx46 (with only one side hooked up) we were able to get playback louder and clearer then I think we ever had done in the past. And we were nowhere near the limiters coming on and the amps were barely reading much signal. But since we ran out of time to tweak we had to go back to the standard setup we do.

EV did mention to me about using the Dynacord amps for these speakers. But we already have a lot of QSC amps.


Before we are allowed to have shows again we will need to find a place to set this all up and tweak it to my satisfaction. And an update on this, based on what it sounded like to me I have high hopes for this but for some reason I just can’t get the time to get the system set up and tweaked. So we just keep going back to what has worked for us for years. We just need to find an outdoor space where we can make a lot of noise without having to then do a concert that same day.
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Doug Fowler

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Re: LOUDspeakers
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2021, 03:00:56 AM »

That's Awesome Kevin.

Small stage, a pair of QRX-212 flown sideways per side with your HF orientations, that sounds like a superior solution.

These are affordable quality flexible loudspeakers with a lot of potential, and service life after the company moves up in the market.

And they're light enough that you should be able to put it on a sub then erect it with one person.



 
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Doug Fowler

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Brian Bolly

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Re: LOUDspeakers
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2021, 04:11:56 AM »

Riley's Deltamax solution is a good one if you can find it.   TX4 was really popular on the LAB in the 90s, pretty much a poor man's Deltamax.  Quality build, quality components, factory fly things.  Checks a lot of boxes, and also had an analog controller. Dave Lowum (where are you Dave) built/helped build a smallish regional company based on TX4s in the Chicago area. I last saw Dave in lower Wisconsin at that famous sausage joint right off the interstate in 1999-2000 I guess.  The sausage joint had a robust small venue attached.  2x TX4 per side, plenty loud, etc.  I imagine TX4 is still in use all over Canada.

I bought my TX rig circa 2000 after Dave's experiences/recommendations, and we even traded some settings for the QSC DSP-3 backpacks that would bolt onto the QSC PL2 amps, as the analog processors were very conservative.  At the same time I was also working for a company with a real DM rig, and the tonal quality of the two boxes (DML1152 and TX4) were eerily similar - DM had a little more LF output, but was also slightly bigger and slightly heavier.  I last saw Dave around 2008-2009 over lunch at a deep dish pizza joint in Chicago.  The interwebs say he's the MON engineer on a gig that's easy like Sunday morning.

To OP: You mention having an SRX 725 rig.  If you're primarily a JBL shop, there's something to be said for having "more of the same" in inventory, even if it's just more of the same style/series, not necessarily same model.  I see a few pairs of the "F" variants of the SRX700 series for sale on the usual sites, so they shouldn't be too hard to come by.

If you aren't opposed to changing horses, in the small/light/loud category would easily go to the Meyer Sound ULTRA-X42.  Small, light, incredibly loud, and there's a rain hood available so water is not a problem (just don't hose them down).  They easily best any of the aforementioned speakers by +5dB or more.  The down side: they don't tick the "cheap" box. 
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Doug Fowler

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Re: LOUDspeakers
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2021, 04:15:04 AM »

I bought my TX rig circa 2000 after Dave's experiences/recommendations, and we even traded some settings for the QSC DSP-3 backpacks that would bolt onto the QSC PL2 amps, as the analog processors were very conservative.  At the same time I was also working for a company with a real DM rig, and the tonal quality of the two boxes (DML1152 and TX4) were eerily similar - DM had a little more LF output, but was also slightly bigger and slightly heavier.  I last saw Dave around 2008-2009 over lunch at a deep dish pizza joint in Chicago.  The interwebs say he's the MON engineer on a gig that's easy like Sunday morning.

To OP: You mention having an SRX 725 rig.  If you're primarily a JBL shop, there's something to be said for having "more of the same" in inventory, even if it's just more of the same style/series, not necessarily same model.  I see a few pairs of the "F" variants of the SRX700 series for sale on the usual sites, so they shouldn't be too hard to come by.

If you aren't opposed to changing horses, in the small/light/loud category would easily go to the Meyer Sound ULTRA-X42.  Small, light, incredibly loud, and there's a rain hood available so water is not a problem (just don't hose them down).  They easily best any of the aforementioned speakers by +5dB or more.  The down side: they don't tick the "cheap" box.

Glad to hear Dave landed in a good place.  If you have his contact info and he doesn't mind sharing, hit me with a PM please. 

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« Last Edit: April 26, 2021, 04:19:15 AM by Doug Fowler »
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: LOUDspeakers
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2021, 10:54:52 AM »

I need speakers that get LOUD and small.  Bonus points if used ones are cheap.  Passive is almost certainly preferred.

Current contenders are
SM80 , but way too expensive for now.
SRX815 , but will they be loud enough?
QRX212 , but never used them and not sure they’re “short” enough.
VRX / JFL type array , but weight adds up.

Any other speakers that get surprisingly loud with a relatively small size?  What else should I consider?

Used Danley SH46's fit the small, LOUD, passive requirements; they're around the price of new SM80's.  There's loud (front loaded 15") and then there's LOUD (SH46).  Drastic difference. 

QRX212's are worth a look for sure.  The ones I used are being replaced with Danley this week, there's only one pair but PM me if interested and I'll put you in touch with the owner.  I know they have FIR presets, and can likely help get them into your hands.  2 per side with rotated horns, as others have mentioned, is a solid option.

I've also used the TX4's, did a small tour with them many years ago in Canada.  At the time I thought they were great, but haven't AB'ed them with anything in nearly two decades.
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Mike Pyle

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Re: LOUDspeakers
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2021, 10:58:35 AM »

You dismissed the SM80s straight off as "too expensive" but it looks like many of the suggestions here are not much cheaper or even considerably higher priced.
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Re: LOUDspeakers
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2021, 10:58:35 AM »


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