Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Russell Ault]

Although it might be the "Right Tool For The Job".........

I'm sure I've used the red 4099 on a saxophone before without issues (despite being 10 dB less sensitive, the Extreme SPL version only has ~6 dB more headroom); besides, for those prices, it might be cheaper to replace the wireless!

-Russ

[Helge A Bentsen]

The 4099 loud SPL has SIGNIFICANT more headroom than the old 4099 high sens. New Core-preamp in the back of the capsule results in almost as much headroom as the old 4099 low sens.  So you can get away with more input on the lower SPL rated  4099  today than you used to be able to do.

I'd say that if the mic doesn't distort if you run it with a cable directly to the desk, it's not the mics fault. But I would test that first before I consider other options.

[Chris Hindle]

I'm sure I've used the red 4099 on a saxophone before without issues (despite being 10 dB less sensitive, the Extreme SPL version only has ~6 dB more headroom); besides, for those prices, it might be cheaper to replace the wireless!

-Russ

Russ, you mentioned it up-thread. I'd be willing that the Phantom is not quite enough to supply what the mic needs.
Wouldn't that give a lot of "ugly" to the signal?
Chris.

[Justice C. Bigler]

I have the correct mic for my saxophone and the other applications that I use it for. Even at my loudest, and I can keep up with a Marshall half stack just by myself, I'm not much beyond 100db, playing right into the mic or db meter. I'm sure the issue is more that the Rode Wireless Go is built for speech and not instrument playing, and that I may need the DPA Microdot adapter rather than the Tentacle Sync version. There must be some kind of resistor or pad built into the DPA one.

When I started this experiment, I expected my saxophone to have a low output, because the Rode can't supply the require minimum 5v plug in power to the mic. So I expected it to be a lower output (which I can raise in post if I need to), rather than hotter: the gain set to -30db and the pad engaged still clips the preamp on the Go II transmitter. And I have to play at a pianissimo to get the level where I would want it and not clip. Obviously I can't play pianissimo all the time.

[Scott Helmke]

The microphone element itself uses very little power, but the actual voltage available will affect the headroom.  If you wanted to try something cheap, you could build a little circuit to run the 4099 from a 9v battery and pad the output down a little to match your wireless.

[Art Welter]

Even at my loudest, and I can keep up with a Marshall half stack just by myself, I'm not much beyond 100db, playing right into the mic or db meter.

When I started this experiment, I expected my saxophone to have a low output, because the Rode can't supply the require minimum 5v plug in power to the mic. And I have to play at a pianissimo to get the level where I would want it and not clip.

Justice,

Most sax players I've worked with have similar levels at the mic as vocalists. 100dB seems quite low, I can easily sustain over 120dBC (slow) with my lips near a dB meter mic, 100dB at a "conversational" level.

That issue aside, I'd assume the DPA 4099S  uses an internal DC/DC converter to increase lower voltage to near 48v needed for it's 142dB input capability at clipping.
If not provided with the minimum 5v it needs (inline resistors may also reduce voltage) the mic PSU would be starved, clipping at very low input level.
Phantom power voltage below the minimum level would not reduce output level until it clips (hard, at anything above pianissimo).
Reducing level downstream at the recorder input wouldn't change clipping caused by a starved mic PSU.

Scott's outboard PSU suggestion makes sense.

You could check if the mic PSU is starved close micing a small speaker playing a sine wave while advancing levels listening to the recorder output, if its a PSU voltage issue it will sound the same until onset of clipping regardless of the  -30dB pad switch setting.

Art

[Scott Helmke]

I've had some DPA 4066 headset capsules apart (they were not repairable and I was curious), and there wasn't anything except a FET.  I haven't been inside any of the newer Core products, but I doubt they've added any circuitry. The FET would be chosen to provide a clean output at the desired level and within the voltage range allowed by the power supply (usually 5 volts).  Not a problem for a decent wireless pack or purpose-built XLR interface.

[Russell Ault]

{...} There must be some kind of resistor or pad built into the DPA one. {...}

As Helge mentioned, DPA sells a couple different 1/8"-Microdot adapters. The Sennheiser-oriented one is a straight pass-through with the ring left NC; the Sony-oriented one does have a resistor built in (although without knowing offhand how the Sony packs are pinned out I can't tell you what that resistor is actually doing). Mercifully, DPA publishes the schematics for all their Microdot adapters.

Most sax players I've worked with have similar levels at the mic as vocalists. 100dB seems quite low, I can easily sustain over 120dBC (slow) with my lips near a dB meter mic, 100dB at a "conversational" level. {...}

This was my sense of it, too; the inverse square law does some pretty wacky things when you go from 1 m to 1 cm. Even so, the red 4099 should be just fine on a saxophone.

-Russ

[ProSoundWeb Community]