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Author Topic: LF haystack  (Read 6639 times)

John A Chiara

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Re: LF haystack
« Reply #30 on: May 23, 2022, 03:29:56 PM »

Since the board mix had been mentioned in this thread, I wanted to point that out. I'm not against using subs on an aux, I just say that is not always the best solution, specially with inexperienced engineers at the helm. Anyway, the thread is about LF haystack, which in my experience is neccesary at least a little bit in almost all occasions.
The big elephant in the room is ‘inexperienced engineers!!’
In what other discipline do inexperienced people run the show? Restaurant? Airlines? Race cars? NONE!!
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Art Welter

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Re: LF haystack
« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2022, 04:43:37 PM »

By the way, this term HayStack EQ ... where did this come from ?  It evokes a vision of a curve but not one I would ever think would be applied outside of car stereo, in someone elses children's car :-)
Mal,

For those who don't know what a low frequency "haystack" curve looks like, here is a graphic example:
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Mal Brown

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Re: LF haystack
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2022, 09:23:40 AM »

A big bump at 60 to 120.   Interesting.   My rigs - all I mix on - unless there are venuew issues that contr-indicate, have a slight tilt.  I tend to be mixing blues, rock, new-grass (southern rock with banjo, mando, dobro and can ya make it louder bro?)  I hpf like the dickens.  The bass and kick I give their own emphasis.

As I am a bass player that also mixes, If I get the kick and bass right, vocals prominent, everything else will fall into place.
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Bass player, sound guy.
Fb Gorge Sound and Light
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Jelmer de Jong

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Re: LF haystack
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2022, 11:57:58 AM »



By the way, this term HayStack EQ ... where did this come from ?  It evokes a vision of a curve but not one I would ever think would be applied outside of car stereo, in someone elses children's car :-)
Well, if you hang 12 boxes a side from either a well know French or a well known American brand of speakers you get a 14dB haystack, right out of the box. Not sure why....

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Russell Ault

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Re: LF haystack
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2022, 03:43:29 PM »

Well, if you hang 12 boxes a side from either a well know French or a well known American brand of speakers you get a 14dB haystack, right out of the box. Not sure why....

I can't speak for the French, but up until the L-series Meyer always insisted that each individual box, whether point source or line array, should have a ruler-flat mag trace (which, in fairness, does make them very easy to test on the workbench). Of course, put 12 of them together and the summation below the crossover will produce a huge haystack (and not necessarily a nice-sounding one, either).

-Russ
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Mac Kerr

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Re: LF haystack
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2022, 06:16:41 PM »

I can't speak for the French, but up until the L-series Meyer always insisted that each individual box, whether point source or line array, should have a ruler-flat mag trace (which, in fairness, does make them very easy to test on the workbench). Of course, put 12 of them together and the summation below the crossover will produce a huge haystack (and not necessarily a nice-sounding one, either).

-Russ

Which is why a Galileo was required to drive the system. The Galileo had the low frequency compensation built in, you just had to tell it how many boxes in the array.

Mac
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Jelmer de Jong

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Re: LF haystack
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2022, 08:15:39 AM »

I can't speak for the French, but up until the L-series Meyer always insisted that each individual box, whether point source or line array, should have a ruler-flat mag trace (which, in fairness, does make them very easy to test on the workbench). Of course, put 12 of them together and the summation below the crossover will produce a huge haystack (and not necessarily a nice-sounding one, either).

-Russ
I think that is kinda weird for a box(Milo) designed to be used with eight or more per side. The French have their '6 box vdosc curve' which comes down to a 6dB LF boost around 100Hz and its their target curve for any new box they design. Besides some odd situations here and there, i rarely use a dual 15" three way speaker with less than 12 a side so unless I use the magic array compesation that some manufacurers offer the starting point is 'big boom haystack'.  ;D
If it was me designing presets, a dual 12 or 15" speaker would be flat-ish when used 12 per side. For a bigger array you would need a bit of LF cut and a smaller array would need some LF boost.
Current presets, without array compensation would make you think that the LF haystack is what people want. Reading through this topic, it clearly isn't.  8)
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Russell Ault

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Re: LF haystack
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2022, 08:45:03 PM »

I think that is kinda weird for a box(Milo) designed to be used with eight or more per side. {...}

This is one of the reasons (perhaps the only reason?) that Meyer's L-series line array boxes aren't individually "flat".

That said, at least around here you'd be hard-pressed to find a Meyer array that didn't have a Galileo (of some kind) behind it, so at least in some people's minds the disadvantages of having to use array correction (that you were probably going to use anyway) were outweighed by the advantages of being able to test any Meyer box in a very rudimentary test rig and know just by looking at the mag trace whether it's working properly or not.

-Russ
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Re: LF haystack
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2022, 08:45:03 PM »


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