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Author Topic: Mic for stage bleed reduction  (Read 2242 times)

Steve Garris

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Mic for stage bleed reduction
« on: April 12, 2021, 09:36:09 pm »

I'm back after a year off from covid - just doing a few shows a year now.

My primary band uses all IEM's. I have an issue with the guitar player. He is hearing way too much drums in his ears (they're not in his mix). I showed him that they're coming through his vocal mic, which has a very high gain setting. He often speaks and sings too quietly, requiring the high gain.

I decided to switch out his standard issue 58 for a Senn 935, which he liked better, but it didn't really eliminate the stage bleed. Can anyone recommend a quality vocal mic that would eliminate more of the drum stage bleed? He's only singing backups, and there are no monitors or feedback issues with this band.
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Debbie Dunkley

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Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2021, 10:22:51 pm »

I get good results from the Audix OM7 and use it mainly for drummers who sing for just the reason you state. You have to be right on the mic and have the gain turned up higher than usual but it is great for rejecting everything else.
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Russell Ault

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Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2021, 12:00:50 am »

{...} Can anyone recommend a quality vocal mic that would eliminate more of the drum stage bleed? He's only singing backups, and there are no monitors or feedback issues with this band.

If you can't make him louder (or the drums quieter), and if his mic technique is already good (i.e. you also can't get him any closer to the mic), then it's time to start looking at gating. If it's only a problem when he moves away from his mic you could even consider something like an Optogate.

I get good results from the Audix OM7 and use it mainly for drummers who sing for just the reason you state. You have to be right on the mic and have the gain turned up higher than usual but it is great for rejecting everything else.

Highly-directional microphones like the OM7 can definitely help in situations (like singing drummers) where the sound you're trying to reject is coming from a different direction than the sound you're trying to pick up, but in the case of a quiet singer in front of a loud drum kit (i.e. where the wanted and unwanted sounds are coming from roughly the same direction) a more directional microphone isn't likely to do much.

-Russ
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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2021, 02:22:02 am »

Two different approaches here, OM7 and other high directional mics works well. If you have a B57A/B56, it's worth testing even though it's pattern is not super-tight, primarily because you get the capsule closer to the mouth with equals more signal to noise.
The other approach is going for a mic that sounds good off-axis so the bleed sounds better. Works well with singing drummers who like hearing a reasonable amount of their drums anyway. I deploy DPA d:facto for this with good results. 
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Alec Spence

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Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2021, 06:12:34 am »

He often speaks and sings too quietly, requiring the high gain.
Inadequate performer expects technology to fix their problems, as ever.

The root cause of the problem is him.  He does need to understand that his weak voice is causing his problem and, quite likely, impacting the FOH mix.

By all means, you can try all the tricks in the book - OM7, tighter polar patterns, gating (unlikely to work if the kit's louder than his voice), opto-gating (depending on how he moves), repositioning him, drum-shield.  All of these will only make incremental improvements, and physics will still determine that the loudest sound at the mic wins.

Many performers think that a fully micd band is a mix of individual instruments - it's instructive to playback some solod sources to help them discover that a band is a mix of mixes.
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Mike Caldwell

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Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2021, 06:49:53 am »

Does he at least sing right on top of the mic?
Does he understand the cause of the problem?

At one time Crown made "Differoid" vocal mics more or less like a CM311
headset mic in a handheld version.

If you could fine one it may be worth a try.
Anything is going to just be a band aid on the problem.

Mark Norgren

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Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2021, 08:07:45 am »

Do you use a Gate?  Maybe have your drummer use a shield?  I try and keep our stage volume low and find it easier to have a cleaner mix.  MHO  Not sure the change from a 58, OM7 or the Senn will make a huge difference?
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Chris Hindle

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Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2021, 08:30:39 am »

I'm back after a year off from covid - just doing a few shows a year now.

My primary band uses all IEM's. I have an issue with the guitar player. He is hearing way too much drums in his ears (they're not in his mix). I showed him that they're coming through his vocal mic, which has a very high gain setting. He often speaks and sings too quietly, requiring the high gain.

I decided to switch out his standard issue 58 for a Senn 935, which he liked better, but it didn't really eliminate the stage bleed. Can anyone recommend a quality vocal mic that would eliminate more of the drum stage bleed? He's only singing backups, and there are no monitors or feedback issues with this band.

Tape a second one beside it, wires out of phase. It worked for "the Dead".....
Chris.
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Dave Pluke

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Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2021, 11:03:05 am »

Can anyone recommend a quality vocal mic that would eliminate more of the drum stage bleed? He's only singing backups, and there are no monitors or feedback issues with this band.

You're likely to get a lot of "Ford vs Chevy" answers but, in general, the narrower the pickup pattern, the better the rejection. BUT, that means the singer needs to be ON the mic - not off axis or 3 feet back.

Some of my personal favorite super/hyper cardioid vocal mics are sE V7 (in the SM58 price range) and Telefunken M80 (2.5x $).

You might also look into an OptoGate for that mic:  http://www.optogatesolutions.com/

Dave
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2021, 12:50:37 pm »

It looks weird, but you can also point the mic more to the side away from the drums to get them farther into the mic null.
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Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2021, 12:50:37 pm »


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