ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Mic for stage bleed reduction  (Read 1674 times)

Debbie Dunkley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5503
  • Central North Carolina
Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2021, 02:14:47 pm »

It looks weird, but you can also point the mic more to the side away from the drums to get them farther into the mic null.

My thinking exactly and also have the guitar player stand a little further to the side of the drummer if possible.  These kinds of small changes can really make a difference.
Logged
A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Luke Geis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2207
    • Owner of Endever Music Production's
Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2021, 03:55:15 pm »

I think point one would be to ensure he is aware of why the problem exists. that doesn't mean he has to change what he does, but at least so he knows who to blame. As long as he knows it's because of what he does that the issue is worse, he can at least come to a point of reasonable expectation from the other talents in the room. I.E. he is the limitation that sets the bar where it is at. the better he is, the higher the bar can go.

Aside from that, you can try gating or expansion, but if the problem is still bad when he is on the mic, it will only solve the issue when he is off the mic.

A trick you can try. Instead of gating the actual channel, you can copy the channel to another one and flip the polarity. It will 100% null out the mics sound when you route both into his brain. Apply a very high ratio compressor to the copied channel. Set it so that the ambient noise doesn't activate the compressor, but as soon as he sings it does engage the compressor. When the polarity flipped channel compresses enough, the primary channel will be all he hears. you can also use this trick like a gate to keep the background noise down to an acceptable level that is dynamic to his singing.

A third option that will require some more work would be to use a second matching microphone that is set near to him but isn't used for anything other than noise cancellation. Again, you invert the polarity of this " other mic " and adjust the delay ( so it will need to be further away from him than the drums are ) and because the drums sound shouldn't change too much in a couple of feet, they should nearly completely null out while allowing his voice to come through.

Directional mics will not and cannot completely fix the bleed issue. it will always be there, although reduced some. The other tricks can help get the noise floor even lower, but have their own issues.
Logged
I don't understand how you can't hear yourself

Russell Ault

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1121
  • Edmonton, AB
Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2021, 05:44:56 pm »

Tape a second one beside it, wires out of phase. It worked for "the Dead".....

This is worth a try, too. I'd switch to a pair of omnis, though, probably EV 635As or the like.

-Russ
Logged

Art Welter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1842
Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2021, 06:25:50 pm »


You might also look into an OptoGate for that mic:  http://www.optogatesolutions.com/


Noise gates will either false trigger from the drum level, or cut off initial vocals.
Luke's  polarity reversed/compressed duplicate "trick" suffers from the same problem.
The off axis sound of polarity reversed pairs, or noise cancelling mics using phase reversed elements (Crown differoid etc.) just plain sucks, the Grateful Dead abandoned that concept and went to alarm mats wired to contact closures of noise gates for good reason.

Hypercardioid mics (OM7 etc.) generally won't reduce background noise leakage for a weak singer enough to make much difference, especially if the weak singer is not willing to have lips glued to it.

The Optogate, or a switching mat are by far the best sonic solution to shutting off an unused vocal mic.

https://www.premierguitar.com/make-a-mic-muter

Art
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 06:37:41 pm by Art Welter »
Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21923
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2021, 10:31:06 pm »

There is not a sufficient, economical solution to this fundamentally human issue.  The player needs a psychologist and a voice coach, and the drummer needs lighter sticks and a thoroughly sound beating when overplaying.  No, I'm not joking.

These are exactly the kinds of problems that can only be *fixed* at the source; everything else is a band-aid/make-do/humor-him response.

The OM-7?  Eh, if he's not on the mic now, he won't be then, either.  Turn the player around 180 and face upstage and *maybe* the OM-7 would be an improvement, but then an SM-58 might be acceptable... so long as the business end of the mic is pointing upstage the drummer will win against the mini-voice.
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Chris Grimshaw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1626
  • Sheffield, UK
    • Grimshaw Audio
Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2021, 03:44:34 pm »

so long as the business end of the mic is pointing upstage the drummer will win against the mini-voice.

This is important. The mic's pointing at the drummer, and loudest sound at the mic wins.

The only mic I can think of that even might help is the EV N/D967, which IMO doesn't sound great, but by having an almost flat grille (psychological - singers seem to stay on it better) and the capsule very very close to the singer (inverse square law helping out, for a change), has the best isolation for a vocal that I've come across.

I prefer Sennheiser e935s for 99.9% of situations, though. I rarely recommend the EVs because of their huge proximity effect (serious EQ required) and not-particularly-smooth kHz range.

Chris
Logged
Sheffield-based sound engineering.
www.grimshawaudio.com

Robert Healey

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 257
Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2021, 06:00:51 pm »

This is worth a try, too. I'd switch to a pair of omnis, though, probably EV 635As or the like.

-Russ

Crown makes a headset differential mic (CM311). It's giant so I doubt a modern singer will want to wear it, however.
Logged

Don T. Williams

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 895
  • Midas Pro 1 & 2, M32, dbTech T12, T8, S30, DM12
    • Q Systems Music & Sound
Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2021, 06:49:40 pm »

Not an answer to the question, but a question if the Shure KSM8 might work.  I don't have one (a little expensive to buy just to play with), but it looks like it might be a solution to that problem.  Anyone try one?
Logged

Chris Grimshaw

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1626
  • Sheffield, UK
    • Grimshaw Audio
Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2021, 02:31:45 am »

Not an answer to the question, but a question if the Shure KSM8 might work.  I don't have one (a little expensive to buy just to play with), but it looks like it might be a solution to that problem.  Anyone try one?

Got one here. It won't fix this situation, but if you're looking for a decent-sounding dynamic vocal mic, it's a good choice. Nice and smooth in the kHz range.

Chris
Logged
Sheffield-based sound engineering.
www.grimshawaudio.com

Jerome Malsack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1375
Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2021, 03:23:53 pm »

how about having the optical gate  ?  http://www.optogatesolutions.com/

or using a floor pressure switch that when standing in front of the mic on the segment of floor with the switch the mic is turned on. 

Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Mic for stage bleed reduction
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2021, 03:23:53 pm »


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.027 seconds with 18 queries.