ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Down

Author Topic: Cardioid sub worth switching to?  (Read 5924 times)

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9534
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Cardioid sub worth switching to?
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2021, 11:06:07 AM »

You guys!!!

How would the TH mini's work with the TH118's? - thinking using the minis for small stuff and adding them to the TH118's for bigger stuff.
The answer (as usual) is "It depends".

In this case it depends on the phase of response of the different subs.  They might add together at some freq and cancel at others.

Delay would not fix that, just time of flight issues (which will also be different-so you would have to use delay anyway).

Sure, you "might" could correct it with enough DSP filters, but is it worth it?

No I have not played around with the TH minis and TH118s, as they are not a normal pair that would be used together.

Sometimes you can use different subs (even different basic designs) together and get good results.  But as a general rule it is not a good idea (again due to the phase response differences), unless you measure them, to be sure.

It is usually always best to just use more of the same model for best overall results
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9534
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Cardioid sub worth switching to?
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2021, 11:10:21 AM »


The Electrovoice XCS312 claims over 20dB of rear rejection (centered around 1 frequency), and the Fulcrum Acoustics CS line is generally around 10dB of rear rejection.

Heck, two Danley BC218's can get you pretty near to 20dB of rejection outright (at 80hz).   It just goes to show in order to get directionality, you need to take up some real estate, in one dimension or another.
Yeah. If you want to control low freq, it takes size, and the lower the freq, the larger the size.  That darn physics and wavelengths thing

It doesn't matter if it is by physical means (horns or boundaries) or electronic steering via cancellations, you gotta have some room to put stuff.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Debbie Dunkley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6041
  • Central North Carolina
Re: Cardioid sub worth switching to?
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2021, 02:44:13 PM »

Thanks everyone. So:
Maybe not such a good move to cardioid for my purposes after all...
On the minis - not so good if I want to use for small shows AND utilize for larger ones too, although good choice to replace the PRX's for the small/mid shows only.
The best move however would probably be to sell my PRX's ( that'll be tough as I have grown VERY fond of them AND they have served me well ) and continue to use one of my TH118 for the smaller shows ( as I have already done a few times) and............... then get 1 or 2 more TH118's to fill the space in the garage ............ NAAAAAHHHHH
TO BE ABLE TO REALLY THUMP OUTSIDE - WOOP!!!
Logged
A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Mark Scrivener

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 417
    • My Recording Studio
Re: Cardioid sub worth switching to?
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2021, 03:01:26 PM »

Debbie - thank you for starting this thread. Not that I'm considering cardioid subs, but it shows me I'm not the only one scheming and dreaming about ways to optimize and spend more money on a rig that I haven't used in over a year and have no idea when it will see action again. This thread actually got me excited and thinking I had something to get ready for! Thanks!

Debbie Dunkley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6041
  • Central North Carolina
Re: Cardioid sub worth switching to?
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2021, 03:16:59 PM »

Debbie - thank you for starting this thread. Not that I'm considering cardioid subs, but it shows me I'm not the only one scheming and dreaming about ways to optimize and spend more money on a rig that I haven't used in over a year and have no idea when it will see action again. This thread actually got me excited and thinking I had something to get ready for! Thanks!

U R welcome Mark.....yeah just thrashing ideas around gets me excited - I enjoy so many more aspects of running sound than just ..... running sound.

I'm hoping that folks have had cabin fever for so long that once we are considered to be at safe levels with this thing, that everyone will go bonkers over live music and we will be able to fill the halls more than ever before!
( Did I mention I am the eternal optimist?)
Logged
A young child says to his mother, "Mom, when I grow up I'm going to be a musician." She replies, "Well honey, you know you can't do both."

Mark Scrivener

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 417
    • My Recording Studio
Re: Cardioid sub worth switching to?
« Reply #25 on: April 07, 2021, 03:44:58 PM »

I'm hoping that folks have had cabin fever for so long that once we are considered to be at safe levels with this thing, that everyone will go bonkers over live music and we will be able to fill the halls more than ever before!
( Did I mention I am the eternal optimist?)

Yes!!!!!!!! Most of my musician buddies (my self included) have been getting vaccines (we all teach, so are eligible out here)... I just got my 2nd dose yesterday! None of us know when gigs will be possible out here (our county was the first to lock down in the US and will likely be the last to unlock), but we are at least able to rehearse and jam! And I can even have studio clients now! Hopefully gigs aren't far away!!!!!!

Kevin Maxwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1792
  • USA SW CT 46miles from MidTown Manhattan ATCF
Re: Cardioid sub worth switching to?
« Reply #26 on: April 07, 2021, 11:21:48 PM »

Since cardioid subs may not be in your near future I have something to say about using convention subs especially if you have to use left and right subs. That might give you better results then you are getting now.

When you have a subwoofer or stack of subwoofers to the sides of the stage you will get lobs. It’s usually the loudest in the center between the left and right subs, out in the house and on stage. And then there are the places where the subs decrease a lot in level. 

One little trick to decrease the lobes or to steer them to slightly different locations is to drop the level of one side. It usually doesn’t take a lot to steer it elsewhere or decrease the overall interference. It usually isn’t enough on the side that is lower that the people over there will really notice.
Logged

Luke Geis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2356
    • Owner of Endever Music Production's
Re: Cardioid sub worth switching to?
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2021, 01:08:45 AM »

Having gotten to utilize a multitude of SL series D&B series subs on many shows, I can say one thing, I am not sold on them. They are loud, they sound good, but they just have something about them. It is crazy to be on a stage doing monitors and have 12 of the things in front of you and not be pounded to death, but out front, it is a compromise for that rearward rejection.

About the only time I have truly enjoyed a cardioid setup is when it was end-fired. This deployment reduces some of the rearward rejection, but out front, it is just right.

Cardioid sub deployment also truly does require space in any arrangement; if you want them to work right anyway.
Logged
I don't understand how you can't hear yourself

Helge A Bentsen

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1766
  • Oslo, Norway.
Re: Cardioid sub worth switching to?
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2021, 09:52:54 AM »

Having gotten to utilize a multitude of SL series D&B series subs on many shows, I can say one thing, I am not sold on them. They are loud, they sound good, but they just have something about them. It is crazy to be on a stage doing monitors and have 12 of the things in front of you and not be pounded to death, but out front, it is a compromise for that rearward rejection.

About the only time I have truly enjoyed a cardioid setup is when it was end-fired. This deployment reduces some of the rearward rejection, but out front, it is just right.

Cardioid sub deployment also truly does require space in any arrangement; if you want them to work right anyway.

+1 to this.
There is another manufacturer with a sub that's adjustable from true omni to hypercardioid, it's interesting to adjust it's pattern while listening. Omni sounds better.
Logged

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9534
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Cardioid sub worth switching to?
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2021, 12:56:06 PM »



About the only time I have truly enjoyed a cardioid setup is when it was end-fired. This deployment reduces some of the rearward rejection, but out front, it is just right.


Endfired subs don't have as much rejection or as wide a freq of rejection as "cardioid" setups.

But the sound out front is much closer (almost identical) to a subs in a non directional configuration.

Greater rear rejection comes at the price of loss of impact and and low freq extension
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Cardioid sub worth switching to?
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2021, 12:56:06 PM »


Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.033 seconds with 22 queries.