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Author Topic: New and exciting Dante frustrations.  (Read 2948 times)

Tim Weaver

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New and exciting Dante frustrations.
« on: March 08, 2021, 09:24:35 pm »

I added two new devices to my network this week and one of them broke things.

Device one is a new iMac running 10.14.6 Mojave and DVS (newest build). My 2012 iMac finally bought the farm so I had to replace it with this machine we had on hand. It is used to record using Reaper, plus various other management tasks.

Device two is a custom built PC running Win10. This has a Rednet PCIeR card in it to route audio in and out of LiveProfessor so I can host plug ins on my desk. The desk (CL5) uses an MY16 Dante card for the inserts.


The iMac works fine until I route audio to the DSP Host PC. This is an important distinction to note, The PC can sit on the network and cause no issues whatsoever. But when I route audio to the PC, the iMac starts losing clock sync.


I have tried the onboard ethernet, and a tbolt ethernet dongle on the mac. Same thing happens.



Also when I route audio to the DSP host I get jumping clock masters in Dante. I have no preffered master set so Dante can choose whatever it wants. When I start using the DSP the master starts jumping from one device to the other. Sometimes I will lose audio through the PC which cuts audio on my desk since the plugs are inserted, but nothing else is affected it seems.

I have wired the PC as many different ways as I can figure out, but it still keeps happening. The crappy thing is that Dante Controller gives me no errors about what is happening with the Clock master jumping around. The only error I get is the iMac losing clock sync over and over.


Any ideas?
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Tim Weaver

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Re: New and exciting Dante frustrations.
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2021, 09:29:41 pm »

BTW an interesting thing I learned while experimenting is that if you have an MY16 Dante card in your desk it will show up on Dante Controller whether it is connected by ethernet or not. You can't actually airgap it from the main dante network. This is kinda frutrating because I was hoping to do a link-local connection between the MY card and the Rednet PCIeR. It wouldn't work because my MY card was getting DHCP from the Dante network through the desk.

Also it's interesting that if you just run a cat cable from the MY card to the PC you can't actually see the PC on Dante controller, but you can see the MY card. This is the same whether it is in redundant or switched mode. So the desk is passing network through to the MY card, but that card won't let you see anything past it's ports.
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Russell Ault

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Re: New and exciting Dante frustrations.
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2021, 09:59:59 pm »

I added two new devices to my network this week and one of them broke things.

Device one is a new iMac running 10.14.6 Mojave and DVS (newest build). My 2012 iMac finally bought the farm so I had to replace it with this machine we had on hand. It is used to record using Reaper, plus various other management tasks.

Device two is a custom built PC running Win10. This has a Rednet PCIeR card in it to route audio in and out of LiveProfessor so I can host plug ins on my desk. The desk (CL5) uses an MY16 Dante card for the inserts.


The iMac works fine until I route audio to the DSP Host PC. This is an important distinction to note, The PC can sit on the network and cause no issues whatsoever. But when I route audio to the PC, the iMac starts losing clock sync.


I have tried the onboard ethernet, and a tbolt ethernet dongle on the mac. Same thing happens.



Also when I route audio to the DSP host I get jumping clock masters in Dante. I have no preffered master set so Dante can choose whatever it wants. When I start using the DSP the master starts jumping from one device to the other. Sometimes I will lose audio through the PC which cuts audio on my desk since the plugs are inserted, but nothing else is affected it seems.

I have wired the PC as many different ways as I can figure out, but it still keeps happening. The crappy thing is that Dante Controller gives me no errors about what is happening with the Clock master jumping around. The only error I get is the iMac losing clock sync over and over.


Any ideas?

Just so I'm clear, despite what you'd had hoped to to, the Mac, the Windows machine, and all of the Dante ports on the CL5 are now on the same network, correct?

DVS clock sync issues in OS 10.14 appears to be a known issue, although a Thunderbolt port is suggested as a workaround which I know you've tried.

When you say "jumping around", do you mean that the Master Clock is cycling back and forth between devices all on its own, or do you mean that the Master Clock changes to the PCIe card when you start sending flows to it?

Have you tried replacing the network cable between the PCIe card and the switch? Can you downgrade the Mac to 10.12? Is there a reason you don't want to set a Preferred Master clock?

-Russ
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: New and exciting Dante frustrations.
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2021, 10:05:09 pm »

BTW an interesting thing I learned while experimenting is that if you have an MY16 Dante card in your desk it will show up on Dante Controller whether it is connected by ethernet or not. You can't actually airgap it from the main dante network. This is kinda frutrating because I was hoping to do a link-local connection between the MY card and the Rednet PCIeR. It wouldn't work because my MY card was getting DHCP from the Dante network through the desk.

Also it's interesting that if you just run a cat cable from the MY card to the PC you can't actually see the PC on Dante controller, but you can see the MY card. This is the same whether it is in redundant or switched mode. So the desk is passing network through to the MY card, but that card won't let you see anything past it's ports.

That is pretty wild for sure.  I have only installed a MY Dante in CL once, but never went through a similar process.  Could you set the IP of the MY card and the Rednet PCIeR to static in a range outside the DHCP assigned subnet?   You would likely get a Red warning in dante controller, and I have no idea how the clocks would work then...

I don't use a Macs regularly, but I know there are some issues reported with one of the OSs over on the Dante Facebook group.  Unfortunately, i haven't been paying enough attention to know any more details, but it may be worth a search over there.   
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Nathan Salt

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Re: New and exciting Dante frustrations.
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2021, 10:26:52 pm »

Sorry I have nothing to add to help fix the problem. I can only add that we have different issues with our Rednet PCIeR card.
We have one in a Vmix machine, and connected normally to our dante network. When mounted to our CL3 it wipes all dante patching on boot up of the computer....
ALL input patching, not just from the card.
Our work around is to not have it mounted in the console and patch it from controller. Seems to be working so far

I wouldn't be surprised if it was the Rednet card causing you issues too.

We also have a Dante MY card hooked up to insert noise reduction over mics. Running off a little nuc with Carla hosting the VSTs. All works flawlessly atm

Keen to see where this thread goes
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Russell Ault

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Re: New and exciting Dante frustrations.
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2021, 10:31:58 pm »

{...} Any ideas?

Something else just twigged in my mind: is the Dante firmware up-to-date on all the device (bearing in mind that the Dante firmware is typically separate from the device's firmware)?

-Russ
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Tim Weaver

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Re: New and exciting Dante frustrations.
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2021, 10:54:18 pm »

Something else just twigged in my mind: is the Dante firmware up-to-date on all the device (bearing in mind that the Dante firmware is typically separate from the device's firmware)?

-Russ

Probably not. I will do that, but I couldn't Sunday or Monday. Now I have until this Thursday to either fix it or nuke the DSP so I can do another weekend of services.

This system has been stable for a while and so I haven't touched anything in probably two years.
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Tim Weaver

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Re: New and exciting Dante frustrations.
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2021, 11:02:36 pm »

Just so I'm clear, despite what you'd had hoped to to, the Mac, the Windows machine, and all of the Dante ports on the CL5 are now on the same network, correct?
Yes, all on a Vlan that exists just for Dante
Quote

DVS clock sync issues in OS 10.14 appears to be a known issue, although a Thunderbolt port is suggested as a workaround which I know you've tried.
Yes. Didn't change anything
Quote


When you say "jumping around", do you mean that the Master Clock is cycling back and forth between devices all on its own, or do you mean that the Master Clock changes to the PCIe card when you start sending flows to it?
Yes, it's jumping among all the dante devices on the network. Typically one of my Shure wireless units is the master. I assume it has the lowest MAC address, since it is always the master. Today Master Clock was switching off every 30 seconds to 2 minutes to new devices.
Quote


Have you tried replacing the network cable between the PCIe card and the switch? Can you downgrade the Mac to 10.12? Is there a reason you don't want to set a Preferred Master clock?

-Russ
I tried different cables.

I also tried to set the console as the master. It didn't matter and would jump anyway. Often there would be two "Masters" shown in Dante Controller at the same time.

On a suggestion from another thread I tried to set the desk to internal clock, then the MY card as the master and set the MY card as "external clock source". That didn't work either. Thinking it through now, I can see why that didn't work. The desk also is on the network, and would still need to be clocked from Dante.
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Tim Weaver

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Re: New and exciting Dante frustrations.
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2021, 11:05:20 pm »

That is pretty wild for sure.  I have only installed a MY Dante in CL once, but never went through a similar process.  Could you set the IP of the MY card and the Rednet PCIeR to static in a range outside the DHCP assigned subnet?   You would likely get a Red warning in dante controller, and I have no idea how the clocks would work then...
I can try that, but I'll need to recruit my IT guy to carve out that space for me. I can't just do it myself.
Quote
I don't use a Macs regularly, but I know there are some issues reported with one of the OSs over on the Dante Facebook group.  Unfortunately, i haven't been paying enough attention to know any more details, but it may be worth a search over there.   
I will give it a go.
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David Sturzenbecher

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Re: New and exciting Dante frustrations.
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2021, 11:13:06 pm »

Yes, all on a Vlan that exists just for Dante  Yes. Didn't change anything Yes, it's jumping among all the dante devices on the network. Typically one of my Shure wireless units is the master. I assume it has the lowest MAC address, since it is always the master. Today Master Clock was switching off every 30 seconds to 2 minutes to new devices.I tried different cables.

I also tried to set the console as the master. It didn't matter and would jump anyway. Often there would be two "Masters" shown in Dante Controller at the same time.

On a suggestion from another thread I tried to set the desk to internal clock, then the MY card as the master and set the MY card as "external clock source". That didn't work either. Thinking it through now, I can see why that didn't work. The desk also is on the network, and would still need to be clocked from Dante.

In Dante controller, for your event log, on the lower left, you can set it to “information” it might give you some more details. 

I have a site with a portable rack that is doing something similar. When plugged in, that rack will be promoted master, then demoted, once every 30-120 seconds. It has zero affect on audio though.  My issue only happens when connected over fiber and not cat5.  I suspect I may have a bad SFP, but I need to do some more investigating.
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Re: New and exciting Dante frustrations.
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2021, 11:13:06 pm »


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