ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: Live mic for bass singer  (Read 1351 times)

Kevin Maxwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1460
Re: Live mic for bass singer
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2021, 10:20:28 am »

You mention Shure and you mention wireless mics. What model Shure wireless are you using? If it is available for the wireless that you are using I would suggest that you try the Shure Beta 57 capsule. First find a hard wired one and see if you can borrow it and try it on this singer. It doesnít have as much of a proximity effect as the SM58 or SM57. I donít care for the Beta 58 mic at all. I just searched and I canít find the Beta 57 available as a replacement capsule for any of the Shure wireless. It may be available but I canít find it.
 
I was doing some events where the announcer would use the hard wired SM58 with his lips to the grill (which is what I usually like especially for singers) but the proximity effect was too drastic. I switched to a Beta 57 and it worked like a charm.
 
I think the SM87 has a similar low end behavior but it is more expensive and the high end is more pronounced. I like to say that the SM87 is more accurate but for a lot of singers that isnít a good thing. One time I was doing a Doo Wop group and we used Shure SM87 mics on them and I realized that we just didnít want to hear their voices that clearly. We switched to SM58 mics and it worked much better.   

Does it really have to be a wireless mic? To get the same sound as a wired mic the wireless systems usually cost A LOT more. I see churches all the time using cheap wireless mics all the time that cost way more than the hardwired version and just donít sound anywhere near as good as the wire version.   

There was one act that we would work with that would show up with his own relatively cheap wireless mic, at least cheap compared to what we were using. And I used to cringe but then realized it worked for what he was doing. He was a Neal Diamond tribute act. So the not very accurate sound of the cheap wireless worked for this show. We never got a chance to try our Sure UHF R mics on him so I donít know how that would have worked.   
Logged

John L Nobile

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2202
Re: Live mic for bass singer
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2021, 11:14:33 am »

I got an SM86 capsule to replace a KSM9 capsule which was losing some hi end compared to the others. Probably dropped too many times. I only had a couple of chances to use it before the "plague" hit but I really liked it. Not sure it would work with your w/less system but it wasn't expensive. KSM9's are great but they're expensive and I don't find them the best mic for rock monitor levels. Not what I bought them for but that's what they're being used for now.

As for the singer, I would tell him to swallow the mic and sing louder and hipass the mic as high as possible. If he's not louder than whatever else the mic picks up it's a no-win scenario.
Logged

Stephen Swaffer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2445
Re: Live mic for bass singer
« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2021, 12:29:51 pm »

I've not had experience with anybody like him and his brother.  He (J) has a soft, deep voice in speaking and singing but can be loud singing where necessary.  His brother (B) has a "normal" voice range but he again has to have the mic directly in front of him and no more than 6" away otherwise it drops off quick.  B isn't so much of an issue because I'm getting him an on the ear mic and he doesn't sing.
 

Others can correct me if I am wrong-but keep in mind your mic distance to the one recommended (and that I prefer) of 1".  It doesn't matter which mic you use-it is a matter of physics that sound energy falls off at the square of the distance-so If 1" is your reference, at 6" you have 1/36 th of the energy, at 8" 1/64 th.  See why it falls off quickly?  You can't always fix physics with electronics.

Most of the bass singers I have worked with sound good on a '58-at least to me.
Logged
Steve Swaffer

John L Nobile

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2202
Re: Live mic for bass singer
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2021, 01:06:22 pm »

I've not had experience with anybody like him and his brother.  He (J) has a soft, deep voice in speaking and singing but can be loud singing where necessary.  His brother (B) has a "normal" voice range but he again has to have the mic directly in front of him and no more than 6" away otherwise it drops off quick.  B isn't so much of an issue because I'm getting him an on the ear mic and he doesn't sing.
 


Maybe a headset mic. Great for singers that like to wander off the mic. Crown CM-311 is a great one that will pick up lo end and has great feedback rejection
Logged

Rick Earl

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 368
Re: Live mic for bass singer
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2021, 01:13:31 pm »

Ok, I've been chasing my tail for a while so I thought I'd try here for help.  I'm a HOW sound guy and we have one vocalist that has a bass voice but he has, for lack of a proper term, a short vocal projection.  He almost has to be eating the 2 mics we have to really hear him and at that he can sound muffled.  I'm looking for suggestions on which handheld mic/mic type would be best for him.  Thankfully, the other 4 vocalists have great projection and range so they can stick with the Shure SM57 or 58 wireless setup.

I deal with a lot of student singers, who have the range but not the power.  I found that the Shure KSM8 works great  for bass singers.   I have both hardwired and a wireless capsule. 
Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21994
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Live mic for bass singer
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2021, 03:16:30 pm »

Others can correct me if I am wrong-but keep in mind your mic distance to the one recommended (and that I prefer) of 1".  It doesn't matter which mic you use-it is a matter of physics that sound energy falls off at the square of the distance-so If 1" is your reference, at 6" you have 1/36 th of the energy, at 8" 1/64 th.  See why it falls off quickly?  You can't always fix physics with electronics.

Most of the bass singers I have worked with sound good on a '58-at least to me.

We have a winner!
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Art Welter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1878
Re: Live mic for bass singer
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2021, 04:35:23 pm »

Others can correct me if I am wrong-but keep in mind your mic distance to the one recommended (and that I prefer) of 1".  It doesn't matter which mic you use-it is a matter of physics that sound energy falls off at the square of the distance-so If 1" is your reference, at 6" you have 1/36 th of the energy, at 8" 1/64 th.  See why it falls off quickly?  You can't always fix physics with electronics.

Most of the bass singers I have worked with sound good on a '58-at least to me.
Correction: the inverse distance law (inverse square) states a loss of 6 dB for each doubling of distance,
.5"= 0dB, 1"-6dB, 2" -12dB, 4" -18dB, 8"-24dB.

Then you have additional proximity effect consideration with cardioid mics like the SM-58/57 or hypercardioid Beta 57A/58A, the bass increases more than the high end when moving closer.

There are a variety of mics that reduce proximity effect (EV's Variable D "RE" series, Shure's SM53/54, KSM8). The proximity effect may be a help or a hindrance to a bass singer.

Art

« Last Edit: March 04, 2021, 07:41:42 pm by Art Welter »
Logged

Aaron Baxter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: Live mic for bass singer
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2021, 08:10:58 pm »

Thanks all for the great information.  I'd been eyeing the beta 57/58 as a possibility as I'm not quite sure the SM 58 will quite do it for him.  The spc sheet looks a little more what I think he needs. Also I think the IEMs will help too with him realizing his volume going in and I can game it some if necessary.

We don't have a wireless system, or the X32 yet, but likely soon.  I'm doing as much learning and research as I can even going as far as working with the x32s software.
Logged

Russell Ault

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1263
  • Edmonton, AB
Re: Live mic for bass singer
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2021, 11:25:00 pm »

{...} I'd been eyeing the beta 57/58 as a possibility as I'm not quite sure the SM 58 will quite do it for him.  The spc sheet looks a little more what I think he needs. {...}

Just out of curiosity, what are you seeing on the Beta58 spec sheet that suggests it will do better for your application than the SM58?

If you're able to post a recording of what you're struggling with we might be able to give you better advice (although I understand that isn't always possible).

-Russ
Logged

Aaron Baxter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8
Re: Live mic for bass singer
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2021, 11:53:46 pm »

Just out of curiosity, what are you seeing on the Beta58 spec sheet that suggests it will do better for your application than the SM58?

If you're able to post a recording of what you're struggling with we might be able to give you better advice (although I understand that isn't always possible).

-Russ

Maybe it's just now shown on the SM58 spec sheet, but the frequency response at 1, 2 and 1/8th in.  Suppose I'll order both and see which one works better. 

I'll be able to pull a recording when I get to spend the money to upgrade the system, but until then...  Of course, this entire issue could be the existing board because it's been acting odd anyway.  Seems to be (not always) cutting the 1K+ range making the singers all muffled at times.
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Live mic for bass singer
¬ę Reply #19 on: March 04, 2021, 11:53:46 pm ¬Ľ


Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.033 seconds with 18 queries.