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Author Topic: Anybody Working?  (Read 11986 times)

Russell Ault

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Re: Anybody Working?
« Reply #90 on: July 01, 2021, 03:42:48 PM »

Not everybody can get the vaccine.  I personally know somebody who is allergic to one of the ingredients.

But beyond that, there's still a bit of risk with respect to variants which may or may not be prevented by the current vaccines.

This, plus (if you'll pardon the cliche) "think of the children". None of the vaccines in Canada have been authorized for children under 12 (and I believe this is true 'State-side, too). I have colleagues who are double-vaccinated but nothing has really improved for them because they're trying to protect their young children.

-Russ
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: Anybody Working?
« Reply #91 on: July 01, 2021, 03:52:52 PM »

I guess I don't understand what the hesitation to get back to "normal" is-if it's the unvaccinated getting covid.
Do YOU trust the government, ANY government to have anyone's best interest in mind in this entire cluster fuck?

I certainly don't. There have been far too many examples through history of government pushing out untested and unreliable medical practices of all sorts, including vaccines (or lack of vaccines). Just because we're in 2021 doesn't mean that human nature has changed over the last 100 or 150 years. It's only about money, and power. Nothing else.

And yes, I took the vaccine. If I didn't have to have it to work, I wouldn't have taken it. But I will make sure that every employer I work for knows that that's the only reason I took it, and not out of some altruistic concern for my self or those around me. Because frankly, I DON'T trust that we are being given accurate and truthful information about this entire COVID Pandemic. I trust the government and it's bureaucracy so little that if they told me that the sky was blue, I would have to walk out side and check for myself, just to be sure.
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Chris Hindle

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Re: Anybody Working?
« Reply #92 on: July 01, 2021, 04:02:48 PM »

I guess I don't understand what the hesitation to get back to "normal" is-if it's the unvaccinated getting covid.  Since the vax is available to everyone, then those getting covid chose not to get vaxed and have to deal with the consequences.  We all deal with the consequences of our choices every day-that's life.  My day job is essentially back to normal-still do prework screens, but no known cases (I am in a position to know) in the last 6-8 weeks.  If you're worried, get the vax and relax.  Not trying to argue, I just honestly don't understand.

It's a little more complicated than that.
Both the wife and I are double vaccinated with Moderna.
So far, so good.
This vaccine offers 94% efficacy to a normal, healthy adult.
You can still catch the virus, and spread it, BUT you should not end up in hospital yourself.
IF you're an otherwise healthy adult.

Here's the rub. I am on immunosuppresants for a kidney transplant. My wife has severe asthma / COPD, and was told last month by her lung doctor that even vaccinated, her lungs would not survive catching the virus. She would die.

General public has it in their heads that 2 shots, and go back to the old ways.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
There have been many hospitalizations and a few deaths around here in people that have been fully vaccinated.
Yes, they have all been weakened or frail. Again, NOT healthy adults.

To my family, the threat is very real,and on-going.
Chris.
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Chris Hindle

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Re: Anybody Working?
« Reply #93 on: July 01, 2021, 04:06:31 PM »

Do YOU trust the government, ANY government to have anyone's best interest in mind in this entire cluster fuck?

In my view, the Governments job, ANY government, is to get re-elected.
End of story.
Chris.
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drew gandy

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Re: Anybody Working?
« Reply #94 on: July 01, 2021, 11:07:08 PM »

This is getting philosophical and perhaps a bit existential but here's my take.

Quite a few human beings throughout time have died of diseases (and many other things) without the intervention of any government. A friend recently rejected the offer of an apple from Panera Bread telling me that they won't eat 'that poison' (Panera's apples apparently aren't certified organic). The funny thing is that the seeds of apples are indeed poisonous. It's one of the old tried and true poisons that mankind has come to rely on. We humans have been trying to figure out which things are safe to eat for thousands of years and I think we take for granted (or should I just say, assume) the "safeness" of traditional foods.

I think that the real reason that governments are evil is because they are made up of people. We humans are irrational, egocentric and terribly myopic. It's not government's fault. We've all noticed that humans vary radically in terms of risk taking rationale. Some take risks all day long and some (apparently) try to avoid risk at all costs.

The problem I have is that we never know who's level of "reasonable risk" we're living under at any given moment. When we drive on the road, order a milk shake, receive a vaccine or simply set foot in a condominium building, we're at the mercy of someone else's decisions. I don't think it's reasonable to trust my neighbors (that I barely know) any more than any person in government. They are ALL more than likely to make bad decisions at some point. They are also capable of (sometimes) making altruistic decisions that save a lot of lives.

Now as far as work goes, my work was mostly in corporate AV for smaller meetings. I haven't heard anything yet about going back except some very faint suggestions about some kind of meetings perhaps sometime later this year. I don't know if the decisions about returning will be made by infectious disease experts but since most of the work was for pharma companies with meetings run by actual medical doctors, I suspect there will be some educated and perhaps scientifical risk assessments involved.

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Russell Ault

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Re: Anybody Working?
« Reply #95 on: July 02, 2021, 12:07:39 AM »

This is getting philosophical and perhaps a bit existential but here's my take.

Quite a few human beings throughout time have died of diseases (and many other things) without the intervention of any government. A friend recently rejected the offer of an apple from Panera Bread telling me that they won't eat 'that poison' (Panera's apples apparently aren't certified organic). The funny thing is that the seeds of apples are indeed poisonous. It's one of the old tried and true poisons that mankind has come to rely on. We humans have been trying to figure out which things are safe to eat for thousands of years and I think we take for granted (or should I just say, assume) the "safeness" of traditional foods.

I think that the real reason that governments are evil is because they are made up of people. We humans are irrational, egocentric and terribly myopic. It's not government's fault. We've all noticed that humans vary radically in terms of risk taking rationale. Some take risks all day long and some (apparently) try to avoid risk at all costs.

The problem I have is that we never know who's level of "reasonable risk" we're living under at any given moment. When we drive on the road, order a milk shake, receive a vaccine or simply set foot in a condominium building, we're at the mercy of someone else's decisions. I don't think it's reasonable to trust my neighbors (that I barely know) any more than any person in government. They are ALL more than likely to make bad decisions at some point. They are also capable of (sometimes) making altruistic decisions that save a lot of lives.
{...}

I think I take a slightly more optimistic view of human nature than this, but otherwise I think you're striking to the heart of the matter. I often feel like trust is one of those things we all "get", but no one truly understands. The real challenge is that, unless we are all to become recluses (or worse), we are all effectively obliged to trust both our neighbours and our government to at least some extent. Thus, it seems to me that many of problems that facing western societies today can be traced back to this fundamental dilemma: we are forced by practical necessity to trust people who have not, in our eyes, earned it.

This is a challenging enough problem when it pertains to neighbours, but it becomes downright pernicious when applied to government, for the gains and losses of trust in government have a tendency to become self-perpetuating cycles. On the one hand, a government that is generally trusted by those it governs will be given more opportunities and resources (i.e. mandates and taxes) to improve the lives of the governed which, in turn, will cause those people to trust the government more, resulting in more opportunities and resources, etc. (I think of this as the "I'm a happy taxpayer" scenario). Conversely, a government that is generally distrusted by those it governs will be given fewer opportunities and resources, forcing a reduction in services, which in turn will foment further distrust in the government, etc. (the "why would I want to pay more taxes when those bozos can't even do 'X'" scenario). At some point the distrusted government lacks the resources to fulfil even the barest minimum of its intended purpose, and is so distrusted that people start seriously contemplating its abolition (or, rather, its replacement, for nature abhors a power vacuum).

I think for me, regardless of my political leanings, my single greatest belief is not that governments should be "big" or "small", but merely that they must be good. The nature of how societies have developed over time means that we need to be able to trust our governments regardless of who happens to be in charge of them today. Some places seem to have figured this out better than others, but my strong sense is that the sooner we can all trust the governments we live under (or, perhaps, the sooner those governments can find a way to earn our trust), the happier we'll all be.

-Russ
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John L Nobile

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Re: Anybody Working?
« Reply #96 on: July 02, 2021, 10:22:56 AM »

I didn't realize this till yesterday but we can now have bands performing outdoors in Ontario. Finally! Numbers for the audience are still limited to 25% though.

That starts our stage 2 opening.  Let's see what Stage 3 brings us.

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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: Anybody Working?
« Reply #97 on: July 02, 2021, 01:32:16 PM »

I didn't realize this till yesterday but we can now have bands performing outdoors in Ontario. Finally! Numbers for the audience are still limited to 25% though.

That starts our stage 2 opening.  Let's see what Stage 3 brings us.

As of June 30, both Washington and Oregon are "fully open" -- whatever that means. So, in theory, we should be able to have gigs and go to restaurants and whatnot without restrictions.

I'm still seeing some masks in the stores. What's less clear is who's wearing masks: is it really people who aren't vaccinated, or is it people who ARE vaccinated doing virtue signalling? Everyone has been eligible for vaccination for over two months by now, and when I went for my second dose at the mass vax site, the providers were mostly standing around doing nothing waiting for people to show up. That means those not vaccinated fall into a few groups:
  • Medically unable
  • Unable to get to a vaccination clinic or don't know how to
  • Procrastinators
  • Fearful of vaccine / Antivaxxers

To the first group, I'd say, "I'm sorry." To the second group, I'd say "How can I help?" To the third group I'd say "Get off your ass and get vaxxed!" To the fourth group I'd say "Freakin' lemmings." (That fourth group would say the same to me, I'm sure. Groupthink can go both ways.)
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Scott Helmke

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Re: Anybody Working?
« Reply #98 on: July 02, 2021, 02:55:28 PM »

I'm still seeing some masks in the stores. What's less clear is who's wearing masks: is it really people who aren't vaccinated, or is it people who ARE vaccinated doing virtue signalling?

Don't forget that for a lot of people we've basically been through a war fought somewhere else. More than half a million Americans have died, and a lot of the rest have had to rearrange their life somewhat to get through.  The mental toll is still something we're going to be reckoning with for years.
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Doug Fowler

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Re: Anybody Working?
« Reply #99 on: July 02, 2021, 03:01:45 PM »

Don't forget that for a lot of people we've basically been through a war fought somewhere else. More than half a million Americans have died, and a lot of the rest have had to rearrange their life somewhat to get through.  The mental toll is still something we're going to be reckoning with for years.

Agreed on the mental health issue. 
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Re: Anybody Working?
« Reply #99 on: July 02, 2021, 03:01:45 PM »


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