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Author Topic: Video Streaming Novice | From Camera to Live Streaming | What am I missing?  (Read 1244 times)

Daniel Krueger

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Hello again everyone! I was one of many sound techs that were tasked with getting live streams set up for their church amidst COVID. I received lots of good advice from this forum when we were experiencing horrible sound issues and now we have crisp, clean, and beautiful audio from the changes that we made based on those suggestions.

So here's my next dilemma (that's a bit dramatic).

I am a camera/video novice

Our Gear
We have two cameras at the moment and one input from our Powerpoint computer.
Both cameras can output 1080p via Mini-HDMI to HDMI. (I can get you the camera models if that helps, they are simple camcorders).

We use HDMI-USB converters to connect to our PC (Intel Core i7-10700 CPU @ 2.9GHz, Geforce 1650 - I think).
Our budget didn't allow for the top-of-the-line models so two of these are the "next best thing/budget" and another one is a "super budget" option that actually does better than the other two for whatever reason. (Note: I think this may be my problem but I have no idea).

Our live streaming software of choice is VMix.
Which has been setup in every way I can tell, to take inputs of 1080p and output in every way 1080p.

---------------------------

Our Issue

From Camera to VMix
As I said before, I believe everything is setup to input and output 1080p, but the input views clearly look sub-1080p. I have not figured out any option in the software to adjust it anymore. It is also quite grainy which can be helped by making sure there's more light (but we can only do so much).

From VMix to Facebook
Now I know that Facebook, by default, caps live stream quality at 720p. I know we are not reaching that quality though when our stream is up even though it will say it is. (Potato quality some would say). Visit https://www.saintmarkgr.org/live-streams-recordings/live-stream/ for samples of what I'm speaking about.

What are we doing wrong? What are the major issues we should inspect first? Any advice is helpful!

-------------------------

All in all, this is not an urgent issue, but something we'd like to get to sooner than later. Right now, it looks GREAT on a phone screen, but size that up to a 65" TV like we've had some of our members do and that GREAT turns into "It'll do".

I will get a detailed list of exactly what our equipment is.

Thanks everyone!



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Dan Krueger
Saint Mark Lutheran Church

Dave Garoutte

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I suspect the main problem is you're feeding too much bandwidth into the USB on your PC. 
Software streaming can be problematic also.
Look into the BlackMagicDesign ATEM Mini series switchers.
Depending on what you're doing with VMix, it might make sense.
The Mini Pro will take your 4 inputs (2 cams, laptop and PC) and stream directly to facebook via its internal hardware.
It will do overlays and PiP effects.
Plenty of tutorials and testimonials on youtube.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 05:50:55 pm by Dave Garoutte »
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richard_cooper

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We use HDMI-USB converters to connect to our PC (Intel Core i7-10700 CPU @ 2.9GHz, Geforce 1650 - I think).
Our budget didn't allow for the top-of-the-line models so two of these are the "next best thing/budget" and another one is a "super budget" option that actually does better than the other two for whatever reason. (Note: I think this may be my problem but I have no idea).

I'd have a look at these HDMI-USB devices. I've got quite a few of the unbranded ones, which are fine for my use but not exactly good quality. They all seem to down sample what ever the input is to 720p and also do weird things to colour. One I've got can be set to capture in 1080p but looks like it's still down sampling, and the subsequently re-up sampling (badly). I've also got Black Magic mini recorders that work as expected, but they require thunderbolt and cost somewhat more.

I'd second looking at the ATEM Mini Pro.
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Dan Richardson

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Both cameras can output 1080p via Mini-HDMI to HDMI. (I can get you the camera models if that helps, they are simple camcorders).

Please do. When troubleshooting, start with the source.
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Mike Caldwell

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I suspect the main problem is you're feeding too much bandwidth into the USB on your PC. 
Software streaming can be problematic also.
Look into the BlackMagicDesign ATEM Mini series switchers.
Depending on what you're doing with VMix, it might make sense.
The Mini Pro will take your 4 inputs (2 cams, laptop and PC) and stream directly to facebook via its internal hardware.
It will do overlays and PiP effects.
Plenty of tutorials and testimonials on youtube.

The ATEM Mini series is great but they do not work well with a mix of different input resolutions.

Dave Garoutte

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The ATEM Mini series is great but they do not work well with a mix of different input resolutions.
It sounds like the OP is 1080p all the way.
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Events.  Stage, PA, Lighting and Backline rentals.
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Inventor.  And now, Streaming Video!

Mike Caldwell

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It sounds like the OP is 1080p all the way.

I was thinking the computer input could be the wild card.

Ed Merritt

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I reviewed a video from Jan 31 and it appears to be a low bit rate stream. What bit rate is your livestream ? This can be checked on the Stream button, down at the bottom of the screen.

What is your internet connection like? Have you measured the speed?

The HDMI->USB capture cards will work fine for two cameras - I've done it many times using a laptop with nearly the same specs as your PC. I use the Magewell capture cards and they are champs. No additional software drivers needed. Just plug in and they work.

The vMix video windows should not be used to judge the picture quality. By design they are low resolution so as not to take system resources away from the stream. Although latency will be an issue, use an external monitor or smart TV to view your livestream.

I've been using vMix since 2015 to do some corporate streaming work and it's been very good. I volunteered to provide livestreams of the church Masses during the arly days of the lockdown. Here's an example of a Mass for Lent last April: https://youtu.be/GfcXDk6jWl8 .Shortly after this, we installed a Panasonic PTZ camera so no more two camera streams.
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Daniel Krueger

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Alright, it's been a while everyone but here's some more info on our gear:

Main Camera: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072L4BF9T/ref=cm_sw_r_oth_api_glt_fabc_5HE8Y3EX15DAEZZ18WAA?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

We have another camera that we used for a short time, but very similar quality to our main.

Capture Cards: https://www.amazon.com/Capture-Broadcast-Streaming-Grabber-Converter/dp/B0779ZJZX3/ref=sr_1_20?dchild=1&keywords=usb+capture&qid=1613581940&sr=8-20

Capture card that we tried out cause it was cheap but then started to glitch out on us: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08H273TZ8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thanks!
Dan










Hello again everyone! I was one of many sound techs that were tasked with getting live streams set up for their church amidst COVID. I received lots of good advice from this forum when we were experiencing horrible sound issues and now we have crisp, clean, and beautiful audio from the changes that we made based on those suggestions.

So here's my next dilemma (that's a bit dramatic).

I am a camera/video novice

Our Gear
We have two cameras at the moment and one input from our Powerpoint computer.
Both cameras can output 1080p via Mini-HDMI to HDMI. (I can get you the camera models if that helps, they are simple camcorders).

We use HDMI-USB converters to connect to our PC (Intel Core i7-10700 CPU @ 2.9GHz, Geforce 1650 - I think).
Our budget didn't allow for the top-of-the-line models so two of these are the "next best thing/budget" and another one is a "super budget" option that actually does better than the other two for whatever reason. (Note: I think this may be my problem but I have no idea).

Our live streaming software of choice is VMix.
Which has been setup in every way I can tell, to take inputs of 1080p and output in every way 1080p.

---------------------------

Our Issue

From Camera to VMix
As I said before, I believe everything is setup to input and output 1080p, but the input views clearly look sub-1080p. I have not figured out any option in the software to adjust it anymore. It is also quite grainy which can be helped by making sure there's more light (but we can only do so much).

From VMix to Facebook
Now I know that Facebook, by default, caps live stream quality at 720p. I know we are not reaching that quality though when our stream is up even though it will say it is. (Potato quality some would say). Visit https://www.saintmarkgr.org/live-streams-recordings/live-stream/ for samples of what I'm speaking about.

What are we doing wrong? What are the major issues we should inspect first? Any advice is helpful!

-------------------------

All in all, this is not an urgent issue, but something we'd like to get to sooner than later. Right now, it looks GREAT on a phone screen, but size that up to a 65" TV like we've had some of our members do and that GREAT turns into "It'll do".

I will get a detailed list of exactly what our equipment is.

Thanks everyone!
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Dan Krueger
Saint Mark Lutheran Church

Daniel Krueger

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I reviewed a video from Jan 31 and it appears to be a low bit rate stream. What bit rate is your livestream ? This can be checked on the Stream button, down at the bottom of the screen.

What is your internet connection like? Have you measured the speed?

The HDMI->USB capture cards will work fine for two cameras - I've done it many times using a laptop with nearly the same specs as your PC. I use the Magewell capture cards and they are champs. No additional software drivers needed. Just plug in and they work.

The vMix video windows should not be used to judge the picture quality. By design they are low resolution so as not to take system resources away from the stream. Although latency will be an issue, use an external monitor or smart TV to view your livestream.

I've been using vMix since 2015 to do some corporate streaming work and it's been very good. I volunteered to provide livestreams of the church Masses during the arly days of the lockdown. Here's an example of a Mass for Lent last April: https://youtu.be/GfcXDk6jWl8 .Shortly after this, we installed a Panasonic PTZ camera so no more two camera streams.

Thank you!

I will check the bitrate and internet connection speeds tonight.

Thanks for the input on the video windows. I'll hook up an additional monitor to view the live stream simultaneously.

Any other feedback on vMix? Anything specific to consider when hooking up a new camera?

Thanks again!
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Dan Krueger
Saint Mark Lutheran Church

Dave Garoutte

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Re: Video Streaming Novice | From Camera to Live Streaming | What am I missing?
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2021, 03:03:51 pm »

That's a VERY low res camera (480).  You are never going to be happy with the video quality.  I don't think most devices nowadays even support less than 720.
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Nothing can be made idiot-proof; only idiot resistant.

Events.  Stage, PA, Lighting and Backline rentals.
Chauvet dealer.  Home of the Angler.
Inventor.  And now, Streaming Video!

Daniel Krueger

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Re: Video Streaming Novice | From Camera to Live Streaming | What am I missing?
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2021, 03:23:01 pm »

Thank you!

I will check the bitrate and internet connection speeds tonight.

Thanks for the input on the video windows. I'll hook up an additional monitor to view the live stream simultaneously.

Any other feedback on vMix? Anything specific to consider when hooking up a new camera?

Thanks again!

Alright. The bitrate I had set for the stream last night was 6mbps. The internet connection speeds were 80mbps down and 11mbps up. Which I am guessing might be just a bit too low.
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Dan Krueger
Saint Mark Lutheran Church

Daniel Krueger

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Re: Video Streaming Novice | From Camera to Live Streaming | What am I missing?
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2021, 03:28:29 pm »

That's a VERY low res camera (480).  You are never going to be happy with the video quality.  I don't think most devices nowadays even support less than 720.

I'm checking with my team at church real quick. I thought we had ordered one capable of 1080p at least. They may have sent the wrong link.

Thanks,
Dan
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Dan Krueger
Saint Mark Lutheran Church

Tim McCulloch

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Re: Video Streaming Novice | From Camera to Live Streaming | What am I missing?
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2021, 06:17:40 pm »

Alright. The bitrate I had set for the stream last night was 6mbps. The internet connection speeds were 80mbps down and 11mbps up. Which I am guessing might be just a bit too low.

Sounds like you have Cox Communications for internet; me too, similar speeds.  I can reliably stream 720P 25 FPS (YooToob) but 1080P is very hit/miss.  I suggest the internet provider be consulted and see if they'll bump the up speed to 20mbps.  I called Cox and they bumped my down speed to 150mpbs at no extra charge.  I guess nobody else with a residential account needs up speed?
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Dave Garoutte

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Re: Video Streaming Novice | From Camera to Live Streaming | What am I missing?
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2021, 06:53:50 pm »

Sounds like you have Cox Communications for internet; me too, similar speeds.  I can reliably stream 720P 25 FPS (YooToob) but 1080P is very hit/miss.  I suggest the internet provider be consulted and see if they'll bump the up speed to 20mbps.  I called Cox and they bumped my down speed to 150mpbs at no extra charge.  I guess nobody else with a residential account needs up speed?
Almost all internet services have upload speeds as an afterthought.
You should have 1.5 to 2 times the upload speed as your stream.
15 to 20 mbs is probably the minimum for a decent 1080 stream.
BTW a high quality 720 feed is better than a low quality 1080.
Some streamers, like the ATEM mini, have several different upload bit rates at each resolution.
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Nothing can be made idiot-proof; only idiot resistant.

Events.  Stage, PA, Lighting and Backline rentals.
Chauvet dealer.  Home of the Angler.
Inventor.  And now, Streaming Video!

Daniel Krueger

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Re: Video Streaming Novice | From Camera to Live Streaming | What am I missing?
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2021, 10:18:35 am »

That's a VERY low res camera (480).  You are never going to be happy with the video quality.  I don't think most devices nowadays even support less than 720.

I confirmed that we do have the 1080p version of that camera with an output resolution 1920x1080. I'll be looking into internet speeds and different capture cards at this point.
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Dan Krueger
Saint Mark Lutheran Church

Dave Garoutte

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Re: Video Streaming Novice | From Camera to Live Streaming | What am I missing?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2021, 12:14:53 pm »

I confirmed that we do have the 1080p version of that camera with an output resolution 1920x1080. I'll be looking into internet speeds and different capture cards at this point.
Open you browser and type in 'speed test'.  It's a free up and downlink checker.  Takes about a minute.
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Nothing can be made idiot-proof; only idiot resistant.

Events.  Stage, PA, Lighting and Backline rentals.
Chauvet dealer.  Home of the Angler.
Inventor.  And now, Streaming Video!

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Video Streaming Novice | From Camera to Live Streaming | What am I missing?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2021, 12:14:53 pm »


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