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Author Topic: RCF ND850 Drivers Horn  (Read 1345 times)

Danraj Beharry

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RCF ND850 Drivers Horn
« on: January 06, 2021, 02:29:10 pm »

Hello all, I recently was given a pair of RCF ND850 2" drivers. Although it is not feasible to use these drivers in car audio, I decided to use them anyway in my vehicle. The issue I am having is that the recommended horn for this driver is the RCF H6040 which cannot fit in the vehicle, hence, I was wondering if I can use the RCF HF64 which has a 1.4" exit throat but is much smaller.

I plan on using these drivers at a slope of 24dB @ 3000hz with a power of  90 wrms on each driver.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
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Mac Kerr

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Posting Rules
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2021, 06:29:14 pm »


Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Please go to your profile and change the "Name" field to your real first and last name as required by the posting rules displayed in the header at the top of the section, and in the Site Rules and Suggestions in the Forum Announcements section, and on the registration page when you registered.

Mac
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Posting Rules
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2021, 08:25:31 am »

Looks to me like there's a 1.4" to 2" adapter on the compression driver itself. Removing that should allow you to attach directly to the HF horn.

90w into that driver in that sized space is going to be stupid-loud. You could probably use a far smaller CD/horn combo for 3kHz and up.

Chris
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Danraj Beharry

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Re: Posting Rules
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2021, 11:18:54 am »

Thank you for your help. I removed the adapter and everything matches up now. Although Rcf recommend the HF64 Horn to be used with this driver, I noticed Eminence offers a much compact horn for this driver (Eminence LA-WG14 1.4"). I'll compare them and see which would work better with the best response.
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Art Welter

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Re: Posting Rules
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2021, 12:43:46 pm »

Thank you for your help. I removed the adapter and everything matches up now. Although Rcf recommend the HF64 Horn to be used with this driver, I noticed Eminence offers a much compact horn for this driver (Eminence LA-WG14 1.4"). I'll compare them and see which would work better with the best response.
Danraj,

The LA-WG14, designed for use with a line array waveguide, will reduce high frequency vertical dispersion to only 15 degrees, quite narrow compared to most car "tweeters". Unless pointed directly at your ears, or reflecting off a window directing to your ears, it will sound "dull".

Considering your application being only 3Khz up, you may find a simple 1.4" hole in a 3/4"/20mm piece of plywood with a 3/4" roundover works better, it's dispersion would be near 180 degree in all directions at 3kHz, narrowing to about 90 degrees at 16kHz. If you don't have a router and roundover bit, it's still easy to make a roundover with a 1/2 round file in a few minutes after drilling (or jig-sawing) the 1.4" hole.

The sensitivity would drop to "only" 104-106 dB or so, still above 120dB at one meter with 90 watts- similar to the level of the loudest drummer banging as hard as possible on a thin metal snare drum in your car.

Art
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Chris Hindle

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Re: Posting Rules
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2021, 12:57:58 pm »

Danraj,

The sensitivity would drop to "only" 104-106 dB or so, still above 120dB at one meter with 90 watts- similar to the level of the loudest drummer banging as hard as possible on a thin metal snare drum in your car.

Art

OUCH!
Quite a picture you paint Art.
I've worked with that drummer, and it was painful in a 400 cap. club.....
Didn't help that he wanted it LOUD in his Texas Headphones..
Chris.
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Ya, Whatever. Just throw a '57 on it, and get off my stage.

Danraj Beharry

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Re: Posting Rules
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2021, 01:01:42 pm »

Hey thanks for the detailed response. I think I needed to add more information as the type of application I'm using this for may not be the "norm" car audio system. 

The system is compromised of :

Pair of Beyma 8g40  each in a (0.8ft3 box) 90hz-1000hz
Pair of Beyma 8mi100 horn loaded box 500-3000hz
Pair of drivers RCF ND850 3000hz- 20k

Since I had these drivers laying around and I was missing alot of the high frequencies (1200-20k)from my setup, I decided to add these into the mix with these drivers. These boxes will be on top the vehicle, hence it will be used outdoors ( like Brazilian car music in a stadium) and I needed this set of drivers to "keep up " with the vocals. Inside the vehicle has the subwoofers for the lower end. Hence why I needed a horn that can throw the sound far out so it can sound in harmony with the vocals of the LF drivers.

Hopefully I made the picture clearer on what in trying to achieve. I didn't purchase any horn for the drivers as yet. My choices for a narrow dispersion so far is the :

RCF HF64
Eminence LA-WG14

I'm new to this so I'm open to criticizim and opinions. Thank you.
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Art Welter

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Re: Posting Rules
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2021, 03:32:05 pm »

The system is compromised of :

Pair of Beyma 8g40  each in a (0.8ft3 box) 90hz-1000hz
Pair of Beyma 8mi100 horn loaded box 500-3000hz
Pair of drivers RCF ND850 3000hz- 20k

 These boxes will be on top the vehicle, hence it will be used outdoors ( like Brazilian car music in a stadium) and I needed this set of drivers to "keep up " with the vocals.
Hopefully I made the picture clearer on what in trying to achieve. I didn't purchase any horn for the drivers as yet. My choices for a narrow dispersion so far is the :

RCF HF64
Eminence LA-WG14
Normally, one wants to roughly match the dispersion through the crossover region between the mids and highs. Without knowing the dispersion of your "horn loaded box", not much to go on. Using the RCF ND850, a crossover in the 1500Hz range will probably be more appropriate, and will still "outgun" the 8mi100 unless the horn is really huge and narrow.
If 60 degree horizontal dispersion works for you, the RCF HF64 is a decent choice for a little horn.

The LA-WG14 without a wave guide has 140 degree horizontal, but the addition of waveguide you can make or buy will make it pretty much any desired dispersion from 140 to as little as 10 degrees. It still won't sound as good as the RCF HF64, the wavy slits inside the LA-WG14 that result in a 15 degree vertical dispersion are a negative for sound quality unless you are using multiples in a line array.

Art
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Danraj Beharry

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Re: Posting Rules
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2021, 04:21:55 pm »

Normally, one wants to roughly match the dispersion through the crossover region between the mids and highs. Without knowing the dispersion of your "horn loaded box", not much to go on. Using the RCF ND850, a crossover in the 1500Hz range will probably be more appropriate, and will still "outgun" the 8mi100 unless the horn is really huge and narrow.
If 60 degree horizontal dispersion works for you, the RCF HF64 is a decent choice for a little horn.

The LA-WG14 without a wave guide has 140 degree horizontal, but the addition of waveguide you can make or buy will make it pretty much any desired dispersion from 140 to as little as 10 degrees. It still won't sound as good as the RCF HF64, the wavy slits inside the LA-WG14 that result in a 15 degree vertical dispersion are a negative for sound quality unless you are using multiples in a line array.

Art

Hmm I understand what you're saying Art and I've decided I'll keep with the HF64 Horn. If I'm being honest I just looked at the Eminemce horn maybe because it's price was half the cost of the RCF horn, but I would rather pay a bit more for the better option :).
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Art Welter

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Re: Posting Rules
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2021, 05:43:01 pm »

Hmm I understand what you're saying Art and I've decided I'll keep with the HF64 Horn. If I'm being honest I just looked at the Eminemce horn maybe because it's price was half the cost of the RCF horn, but I would rather pay a bit more for the better option :).
The LA-WG14 is not really a "horn", it is a phase plug extension that normally would have an external waveguide attached- it is not designed to be used without a waveguide. 
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Danraj Beharry

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Re: Posting Rules
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2021, 06:25:43 pm »

The LA-WG14 is not really a "horn", it is a phase plug extension that normally would have an external waveguide attached- it is not designed to be used without a waveguide.

Glad you cleared that up dude, I was under the impression that all I needed to do was bolt it onto the driver and then mount it with the speakers lol.
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Chris Grimshaw

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Re: Posting Rules
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2021, 08:12:34 am »

Hmm I understand what you're saying Art and I've decided I'll keep with the HF64 Horn. If I'm being honest I just looked at the Eminemce horn maybe because it's price was half the cost of the RCF horn, but I would rather pay a bit more for the better option :).

Well, cheaper HF horns are available.

I have a lot of experience with the RCF HF94 horn, which I find excellent. Good dispersion control, easy to get sounding nice. If the HF64 suits your requirements, I'd say go for it.

Chris
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Danraj Beharry

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Re: Posting Rules
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2021, 07:35:42 pm »

Well, cheaper HF horns are available.

I have a lot of experience with the RCF HF94 horn, which I find excellent. Good dispersion control, easy to get sounding nice. If the HF64 suits your requirements, I'd say go for it.

Chris

Hey Chris, I honestly chose the HF64 because it has a narrower dispersion than the HF94. So I'm guessing the HF64 would project the sound further than the HF94? Soon I'll do away with the 8G40 and 8mi100 and use a pair of RCF 10's (not sure which one as yet, I would gladly take any advice on this) to sorta keep up with the drivers. As of now it's too much speakers to move around with lol. Would rather just move around a pair of 10's and drivers which would sound pretty good together.
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Art Welter

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Dispersion
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2021, 01:38:00 pm »

Hey Chris, I honestly chose the HF64 because it has a narrower dispersion than the HF94. So I'm guessing the HF64 would project the sound further than the HF94?
Sound drops at 6 dB per doubling of distance (inverse distance law), regardless of the dispersion of the source.
A 60 degree horn of the same "family" will be 2-3 dB more sensitive on axis than a 90 degree, so can use less power to achieve the same level over a more narrow (smaller) area of coverage.
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Tim Hite

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Re: RCF ND850 Drivers Horn
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2021, 11:52:09 am »

Speakerworks makes under-dash horns for car audio use. They sell them in a kit with 1" CD's. As far as I know, they're the only company to have done this, but they've been doing it a couple decades.
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Danraj Beharry

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Re: Dispersion
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2021, 07:25:01 pm »

Sound drops at 6 dB per doubling of distance (inverse distance law), regardless of the dispersion of the source.
A 60 degree horn of the same "family" will be 2-3 dB more sensitive on axis than a 90 degree, so can use less power to achieve the same level over a more narrow (smaller) area of coverage.

Well, I reached a " dead end " the HF64 and HF94.... I seem to can't find it to buy in the US. Do you any alternative to these horns to work with the ND850 1.4" driver ? 
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Re: Dispersion
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2021, 07:25:01 pm »


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