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[Thomas Le]

Lately been having issues with Stagemix not connecting or dropping connection to the TF-rack installed at a church since July 2019. I can connect to the MTX5-D and the 5 QLX-D's fine via Provisionaire Kiosk and WWB on both iPad and laptop. Below is the networking setup:
 

• UAP AC Pro in standalone mode, 5ghz only, old firmware.
• Edgerouter X, everything has a static IP, recent firmware(?).
• iPad 6th gen having issues, iPad 4th gen works fine most of the time. Laptop works great but only one instance of TF editor allowed. Both iPads are up to date on iOS and Stagemix.
• TF-rack running old firmware v3 I believe.

Would updating the firmware on the TF-rack might fix it? I see nothing on the bugfixes relating to networking. The edgerouter X was added recently because the existing D-Link router kept locking up due to memory leaks on DD-WRT.
 

[Chris Hindle]

Lately been having issues with Stagemix not connecting or dropping connection to the TF-rack installed at a church since July 2019. I can connect to the MTX5-D and the 5 QLX-D's fine via Provisionaire Kiosk and WWB on both iPad and laptop. Below is the networking setup:
 

• UAP AC Pro in standalone mode, 5ghz only, old firmware.
• Edgerouter X, everything has a static IP, recent firmware(?).
• iPad 6th gen having issues, iPad 4th gen works fine most of the time. Laptop works great but only one instance of TF editor allowed. Both iPads are up to date on iOS and Stagemix.
• TF-rack running old firmware v3 I believe.

Would updating the firmware on the TF-rack might fix it? I see nothing on the bugfixes relating to networking. The edgerouter X was added recently because the existing D-Link router kept locking up due to memory leaks on DD-WRT.
 

I have no experience with your gear, but as a "computer thing" I'd get all the firmware up to date.
It may not fix your issue, but it will certainly not hurt.
Chris.
Old analog guy, working with computers all day long.

[Tim McCulloch]

Wireshark on a computer on the network.  Ping/trace every device on the network and see where the packets stop.

[Bill Meeks]

While updating all the firmware most certainly is a good thing, it still may not address the root issue.

Was everything working well since July 2019 and just recently started failing? If so, I would immediately start looking at anything changed since the failures began. You mention the addition of the Edgerouter X replacing the D-Link router. Did that replacement coincide with the start of difficulty? If so, try removing the Edgerouter X as a test and putting the D-Link back in. If things improve, you've found the source of the problem and can then investigate that piece in detail.

[Alec Spence]

Was everything working well since July 2019 and just recently started failing? If so, I would immediately start looking at anything changed since the failures began. You mention the addition of the Edgerouter X replacing the D-Link router. Did that replacement coincide with the start of difficulty? If so, try removing the Edgerouter X as a test and putting the D-Link back in. If things improve, you've found the source of the problem and can then investigate that piece in detail.

This!
If a system was working fine, and then started not working, then something changed at that point.  Obvious, really.   But need to get methodical at identifying everything that changed - networking, audio kit, firmware upgrades, cablling.

It wouldn't be the first time an "improvement" broke a system...

[Geert Friedhof]

Also: Try a different network cable from the TF. May be just a bad connection.

[Scott Helmke]

It would be a good idea to ask if there have been any changes or additions to the church's network, too.  Maybe somebody brought in a new access point for the office?

[Russell Ault]

It would be a good idea to ask if there have been any changes or additions to the church's network, too.  Maybe somebody brought in a new access point for the office?

Along these lines, when was the last time you did a frequency scan with the AP? Might be time to change channels.

-Russ

[Andrien (No Last Name)]

Is the laptop connected thru Wifi or thru Cable? Try to update AC Pro maybe it will help with the disconnection issue. Try to ping the iPad from the laptop see if the connection is actually stable. Also, if possible try to change the wifi channel to exclude the DFS range and choose between 36-48 or 149-161.
On side note, that is one annoying limitation that you can only run 1 PC Editor per console. I kinda doubt it is hard to make it multiple PC especially if it works on Stagemix.

[Thomas Le]

Thanks everyone for the replies.

Updated TF to latest v4 on saturday and also gave it a static IP on the mixer, issue still persists today. Will attempt the UAP AC Pro firmware but it is in its own network with no internet access so I will have to try to do it in standalone mode, but most likely I will maybe get a ladder to take it down and do it at home online. I Did not have time to do a new channel scan.

Also: Try a different network cable from the TF. May be just a bad connection.

Also couldn't change out the network cable because the installer zip-tied everything (smh) and didn't have anything to cut it out. The connection seemed good since I could ping the mixer.

While updating all the firmware most certainly is a good thing, it still may not address the root issue.

Was everything working well since July 2019 and just recently started failing? If so, I would immediately start looking at anything changed since the failures began. You mention the addition of the Edgerouter X replacing the D-Link router. Did that replacement coincide with the start of difficulty? If so, try removing the Edgerouter X as a test and putting the D-Link back in. If things improve, you've found the source of the problem and can then investigate that piece in detail.

The D-link took everything offline because it kept locking up (I assumed a memory leak in DDWRT) and is no longer available (thrown away) but I do have a DDWRT Linksys router that has more ram and cpu power compared to the D-Link that I can recreate the static IP addresses. This was my next thing to do before attempting the UAP firmware upgrade.

Is the laptop connected thru Wifi or thru Cable? Try to update AC Pro maybe it will help with the disconnection issue. Try to ping the iPad from the laptop see if the connection is actually stable. Also, if possible try to change the wifi channel to exclude the DFS range and choose between 36-48 or 149-161.
On side note, that is one annoying limitation that you can only run 1 PC Editor per console. I kinda doubt it is hard to make it multiple PC especially if it works on Stagemix.

Laptop is on wifi, no issues with it.

It would be a good idea to ask if there have been any changes or additions to the church's network, too.  Maybe somebody brought in a new access point for the office?

Believe it or not, the church has no other network in it except for the sound system control which is hidden.

[Scott Bolt]

Borrow someone else's wireless router to see if it fixes things for you.

[Dan Richardson]

church has no other network in it except for the sound system control which is hidden.

Just an aside, hiding does nothing for you. It's still using the bandwidth. Devices can still see it, and try to connect to it.

[Alec Spence]

iPad 6th gen having issues, iPad 4th gen works fine most of the time. Laptop works great but only one instance of TF editor allowed. Both iPads are up to date on iOS and Stagemix.[/li][/list]

The edgerouter X was added recently because the existing D-Link router kept locking up due to memory leaks on DD-WRT.

Thought I'd trip back to your opening post to double check on what you were saying (always a good idea, as things can get very lost in forum threads).

You say that the laptop works fine - is it on a wireless or cabled connection.  If it's working fine on your wireless connection, then your network is fundamentally working, as is the mixer, and so I think you're likely to be wasting your time looking at cabling/mixer/software.

I'm wondering if you're being hit by iOS networking funnies, especially where there's no internet available on a wireless network.  I'm no iOS expert as I hate the things, but Android, iOS and Windows all have the slight upsets when connecting to a wireless network with no internet available - and I think latest versions of OSs can make this a little more hassle.

It's also possible that the change of router has had an effect on this.

You talk of Stagemix (presumably on the iOS devices?) not making or dropping connections to the mixer.  At the point where you see these, do the iOS devices have a wireless network connection, or have they dropped the network?

Is there a setting where you can say "I don't care that there's no internet available"? (Android/Windows do something alone these lines).  Or you might find that there's a Unifi setting for the router which might help.  Alternatively, as a quick test, just getting another more basic router and swapping it beside the mixer might help debugging.

Sorry not to be more precise, but I'm not an iOS person, nor have I used an EdgeRouter.  But have seen these kind of funnies before, with Android/Windows and other routers.

[Miguel Dahl]

Thought I'd trip back to your opening post to double check on what you were saying (always a good idea, as things can get very lost in forum threads).

You say that the laptop works fine - is it on a wireless or cabled connection.  If it's working fine on your wireless connection, then your network is fundamentally working, as is the mixer, and so I think you're likely to be wasting your time looking at cabling/mixer/software.

I'm wondering if you're being hit by iOS networking funnies, especially where there's no internet available on a wireless network.  I'm no iOS expert as I hate the things, but Android, iOS and Windows all have the slight upsets when connecting to a wireless network with no internet available - and I think latest versions of OSs can make this a little more hassle.

It's also possible that the change of router has had an effect on this.

You talk of Stagemix (presumably on the iOS devices?) not making or dropping connections to the mixer.  At the point where you see these, do the iOS devices have a wireless network connection, or have they dropped the network?

Is there a setting where you can say "I don't care that there's no internet available"? (Android/Windows do something alone these lines).  Or you might find that there's a Unifi setting for the router which might help.  Alternatively, as a quick test, just getting another more basic router and swapping it beside the mixer might help debugging.

Sorry not to be more precise, but I'm not an iOS person, nor have I used an EdgeRouter.  But have seen these kind of funnies before, with Android/Windows and other routers.

When connecting my jobs IPAD, I have to press the button in the upper right corner where it says that I want to continue even without Internet present when connecting to the router.[/list]

[Scott Bolt]

When connecting my jobs IPAD, I have to press the button in the upper right corner where it says that I want to continue even without Internet present when connecting to the router.[/list]

I had that problem with my iPad Mini and X32.  I think it went away when I changed the router IIRC.

[Alec Spence]

I had that problem with my iPad Mini and X32.  I think it went away when I changed the router IIRC.

I think one of the differencees can be down to how a router behaves if there's no internet.  Some will take you to a web page attempting to make a connection.  Others are more graceful and just get on with it.

Of course, the client end can vary in how it treats the same situation.

This is one of the reasons why a lot of pro situations use access points with no routers.

In the MI world, though, routers are used a lot, as you often have old ones doing nothing, or can pick them up for pocket money price.  They work, but you have to deal with the odd foible like this.  I actually like using a router, mostly for the fact you can use DHCP for the clients with ease, and no other infrastructure required.[/list]

[Miguel Dahl]

I think one of the differencees can be down to how a router behaves if there's no internet.  Some will take you to a web page attempting to make a connection.  Others are more graceful and just get on with it.

Of course, the client end can vary in how it treats the same situation.

This is one of the reasons why a lot of pro situations use access points with no routers.

In the MI world, though, routers are used a lot, as you often have old ones doing nothing, or can pick them up for pocket money price.  They work, but you have to deal with the odd foible like this.  I actually like using a router, mostly for the fact you can use DHCP for the clients with ease, and no other infrastructure required.[/list]

This is what happened on the router I used. I takes you to a blank webpage with the options to continue without internet, or not. I needed to press the "continue without", or whatever it said button.

[Thomas Le]

Thought I'd trip back to your opening post to double check on what you were saying (always a good idea, as things can get very lost in forum threads).

You say that the laptop works fine - is it on a wireless or cabled connection.  If it's working fine on your wireless connection, then your network is fundamentally working, as is the mixer, and so I think you're likely to be wasting your time looking at cabling/mixer/software.

I'm wondering if you're being hit by iOS networking funnies, especially where there's no internet available on a wireless network.  I'm no iOS expert as I hate the things, but Android, iOS and Windows all have the slight upsets when connecting to a wireless network with no internet available - and I think latest versions of OSs can make this a little more hassle.

It's also possible that the change of router has had an effect on this.

You talk of Stagemix (presumably on the iOS devices?) not making or dropping connections to the mixer.  At the point where you see these, do the iOS devices have a wireless network connection, or have they dropped the network?

Is there a setting where you can say "I don't care that there's no internet available"? (Android/Windows do something alone these lines).  Or you might find that there's a Unifi setting for the router which might help.  Alternatively, as a quick test, just getting another more basic router and swapping it beside the mixer might help debugging.

Sorry not to be more precise, but I'm not an iOS person, nor have I used an EdgeRouter.  But have seen these kind of funnies before, with Android/Windows and other routers.

Hi Alec,

Everything connects, Laptop is on wifi. iPads do keep on the network, it just drops on Stagemix. When I switch to ShurePlus channels, that stays on the whole service, no drops there. I know what you are referring to but that's on the first connect, the option is called "continue without internet".

And Yes, I will be switching out the edgerouter X for a Linksys that has DD-WRT on it for test. If that works, then I'll take the edgerouter X for my personal m32r rig [/list]

[Tim McCulloch]

Maybe I'm a networking idiot (the book title says "dummies") but I'm still at a loss as to why *routers* like the ER-X are being used in stand alone audio networks.

[Brian Jojade]

Maybe I'm a networking idiot (the book title says "dummies") but I'm still at a loss as to why *routers* like the ER-X are being used in stand alone audio networks.

Many times people confuse terms.  Many routers are multi function devices.  They are typically routers, NAT routers, Firewalls, DHCP servers and possibly wireless access points.

While it would be possible to separate these things out, I personally like to have everything except he access point in the 'router' box, even if I don't use all of those features.  So, if I'm needing a DHCP server on the network, a router is going to be put in to do the job.

The nice thing about having a router there is that if I do need to connect to a network, I'm ready to accept that and keep my network isolated from everything too.

[Tim McCulloch]

Many times people confuse terms.  Many routers are multi function devices.  They are typically routers, NAT routers, Firewalls, DHCP servers and possibly wireless access points.

While it would be possible to separate these things out, I personally like to have everything except he access point in the 'router' box, even if I don't use all of those features.  So, if I'm needing a DHCP server on the network, a router is going to be put in to do the job.

The nice thing about having a router there is that if I do need to connect to a network, I'm ready to accept that and keep my network isolated from everything too.

That's why I specifically said "like the ER-X".  Most of the consumer and pro-sumer WiFi packages require very little setup, whereas the Edge Route needs to be told what to do.  For folks used to LinkSys all in one products there's a big gap in expected skill set needed to make things work right.

My personal 'stump the chump' piece is the MikroTik Metal52ac.  Grrrr.  I think Scott H gave up on his, finally.  Mine may become part of my Zoom set props.

[Scott Holtzman]

That's why I specifically said "like the ER-X".  Most of the consumer and pro-sumer WiFi packages require very little setup, whereas the Edge Route needs to be told what to do.  For folks used to LinkSys all in one products there's a big gap in expected skill set needed to make things work right.

My personal 'stump the chump' piece is the MikroTik Metal52ac.  Grrrr.  I think Scott H gave up on his, finally.  Mine may become part of my Zoom set props.

No actually there software is getting better, I am using it temp at the new warehouse for administrative use in the office before I get someone daring enough to stand on a pallet and ride the towmotor up to put the ubiquities in the warehouse. Actually I just said that to annoy Tim, I need to borrow a proper work cage as we are paying to run about 30 bad ballasts/lights so I need to get a lot of work done in the warehouse rafters.

[Thomas Le]

So after about a month, I finally got the chance to upgrade the firmware on the ER-X which I found out had been running a 2 year old firmware, so far it looks promising. I have not experienced lockups on the 4th gen iPad yesterday Sunday, but I would want to try upgrading the UAP-AC-Pro firmware on friday to see if it will fix the 6th gen iPad connectivity. UI pushed out a firmware recently for their AP's that hopefully fixes connection for iOS devices.

[Thomas Le]

A month later, happy to report that there has been no issues since the latest firmware upgrades. TF-rack, iOS, ER-X, and UAP AC Pro are all running the newest versions; granted we got internet uplink in the building that made updating easier instead of SSH and putty terminal.

Guess I was overthinking this lol, just needed updates.

[ProSoundWeb Community]