ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: X32 Live Stream Questions  (Read 1114 times)

Curtis McGill

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 55
X32 Live Stream Questions
« on: December 27, 2020, 06:57:50 pm »

FIRST QUESTION: If a DCA is muted will it be muted in the live stream as well or just muted in the house? The live stream feed is a Bus. My understanding is that the DCA should not impact the live stream bus. However, our speaking mic could not be heard at the beginning of the stream this morning. I forgot to unmute the DCA and the DCA volume was all the way down. At the end of the service it was unmuted and up to normal volume and it was fine.

SECOND QUESTION: If I put all of our musician channels for the live stream on a mute group could I just use that one button to take them out of the stream during the message? If not, is there an easy way to mute the musicians all at once?
Logged

Mike Caldwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2047
  • Covington, Ohio
    • Mike Caldwell Audio Productions
Re: X32 Live Stream Questions
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2020, 07:45:50 pm »

First question-- Yes if the mix that is feeding the live stream is post fade, if the mix feeding live stream is pre fade and depending on the pick off point within the channel than maybe no.

Second question -- Yes a mute group would do that again if the live stream mix is post fade, pre fade could depend.

From you description it sounds like the live stream mix is post fade.
 

Curtis McGill

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 55
Re: X32 Live Stream Questions
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2020, 08:54:40 am »

First question-- Yes if the mix that is feeding the live stream is post fade, if the mix feeding live stream is pre fade and depending on the pick off point within the channel than maybe no.

Second question -- Yes a mute group would do that again if the live stream mix is post fade, pre fade could depend.

From you description it sounds like the live stream mix is post fade.

Yes, our live stream mix is post fade. So, here is my next question... Since the live stream bus feed is post fade, how can I boost the drum mics in the live stream mix without terrorizing the congregation with more drums or higher volumes in the worship center overall? We have kick, snare, and two toms - no cage. We have a reasonable mix in our room (given our experience - or lack thereof), but we often have our BGV's too hot and our drums too soft. BGV's are easier to remedy, but I don't know how to adjust the drums under our current circumstances.

Again, thank you!

Logged

Bill Meeks

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 164
Re: X32 Live Stream Questions
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2020, 09:28:09 am »

Yes, our live stream mix is post fade. So, here is my next question... Since the live stream bus feed is post fade, how can I boost the drum mics in the live stream mix without terrorizing the congregation with more drums or higher volumes in the worship center overall? We have kick, snare, and two toms - no cage. We have a reasonable mix in our room (given our experience - or lack thereof), but we often have our BGV's too hot and our drums too soft. BGV's are easier to remedy, but I don't know how to adjust the drums under our current circumstances.

Again, thank you!

I am not specifically familiar with the X32 mixer, but the other mixers I do have experience with allow you to adjust the post-fader send level. So you can in effect set a "bias" on the post-fader send so that the send level to an aux, mix or bus (pick your term) for that channel is some dB value above or below (referenced to unity) the setting of the channel fader. For example, on my Yamaha boards I can send individual channels to a mix bus either pre-fader or post-fader. And in either case I can adjust the level of that send so I can, for example, send the signal to Mix 1 post-fader but at a fixed offset of 3 dB louder (by turning the Mix Send to +3 dB). So if the channel fader is unity, the Mix 1 Send for that channel will be +3 dB. Or I can go the other way and pull the Send down -1 dB. But either way, as I adjust the fader for that channel the Mix 1 Send will also adjust but it will stay at the offset I dialed in for that send (i.e., +3 dB, -1 dB, etc.). Your X32 very likely works exactly the same.
Logged

Curtis McGill

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 55
Re: X32 Live Stream Questions
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2020, 11:34:36 am »

I am not specifically familiar with the X32 mixer, but the other mixers I do have experience with allow you to adjust the post-fader send level. So you can in effect set a "bias" on the post-fader send so that the send level to an aux, mix or bus (pick your term) for that channel is some dB value above or below (referenced to unity) the setting of the channel fader. For example, on my Yamaha boards I can send individual channels to a mix bus either pre-fader or post-fader. And in either case I can adjust the level of that send so I can, for example, send the signal to Mix 1 post-fader but at a fixed offset of 3 dB louder (by turning the Mix Send to +3 dB). So if the channel fader is unity, the Mix 1 Send for that channel will be +3 dB. Or I can go the other way and pull the Send down -1 dB. But either way, as I adjust the fader for that channel the Mix 1 Send will also adjust but it will stay at the offset I dialed in for that send (i.e., +3 dB, -1 dB, etc.). Your X32 very likely works exactly the same.

I've experimented with that. The problem is that the drums are quieter in the house mix because they overwhelm the room so I'm left with a softer drum mix in live stream feed too - even if I do adjust the drum mix hotter in the video feed. It may just be the nature of the beast for now.
Logged

Stephen Swaffer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2408
Re: X32 Live Stream Questions
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2020, 12:46:56 pm »

I've experimented with that. The problem is that the drums are quieter in the house mix because they overwhelm the room so I'm left with a softer drum mix in live stream feed too - even if I do adjust the drum mix hotter in the video feed. It may just be the nature of the beast for now.

I am familiar with A&H workflow-which is different than the M32-but my daughter's church uses the M32, so I was curious.  Read page 7 in the manual, it explains it better than I can.
Logged
Steve Swaffer

Mike Caldwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2047
  • Covington, Ohio
    • Mike Caldwell Audio Productions
Re: X32 Live Stream Questions
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2020, 08:28:36 pm »

As Bill was saying bring up the drum channels on the mix send higher, may a lot higher!
Since they are post fade if you are running the the drum inputs for the main mix low you will need more level applied to the channel mix sends for live stream.

The next step would be to have someone independently controlling the live stream mix
in real time with an iPad, in that case the mixes would need to set to pre fade.
They would also need a way to monitor the audio feed for the live stream.

The pre post fade mix send concept is same on all mixers digital or analog, some just give you more choices where to pull the mix send signal from within the channel strip.

Kevin Maxwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1392
Re: X32 Live Stream Questions
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2020, 11:26:30 pm »

if you aren't using all of the input channels you can double assign things like the Kick to another channel and use that channel to send to the live stream Mix Bus. Just don't send that channel to the send that you use for the house mix.
Logged

Brian Jojade

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1814
    • HappyMac Digital Electronics
Re: X32 Live Stream Questions
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2020, 01:36:25 pm »

Yeah, lots of ways to set this up, depending on your workflow.

Each channel and bus can be assigned to DCAs, so depending on how you set up your workflow will determine what the DCA will control.

The first step is to decide how you want the mixer to behave.  If you have 2 operators, setting up a completely separate mix for in house and live stream might not be a bad option.  If you're using less than 16 channels, you can duplicate the inputs on channels 17-32 so that the live stream can have full independent control of the mix.   Eg, maybe you need different effects or more or less effect for in house vs on live stream.  By keeping this separated, you have full control of that.

If you need more channels, you can still have completely separate level controls on every channel for each mix by running through separate busses and mixing the bus.

Or, you can send groups of things to duplicate busses and decide which bus goes to mains and which goes to the live stream.  If you send drums to 2 different busses, you can then easily turn them down in house and turn them up on live stream.

So many options available, it's hard to describe them all!
Logged
Brian Jojade

Mike Caldwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2047
  • Covington, Ohio
    • Mike Caldwell Audio Productions
Re: X32 Live Stream Questions
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2020, 02:55:56 pm »

There's lots of creative live stream mix routing options available on just about every digital mixer.

If you want to truly do an active hands on so to speak live stream mix the options narrow down fairly fast as one person can not do the main mix and separate independent live stream mix at the same and be paying close attention to both.

For a one person sound operation building the live stream mix using an open post fade aux/mix, adjusting the mix send levels
accordingly to balance the live stream mix and then just the live stream mix track along with the fader moves made for the mix is going to be about the best compromise.

Curtis McGill

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 55
Re: X32 Live Stream Questions
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2021, 02:14:52 pm »

Lots of trial and error, but last week was our best mix yet. I could actually hear the drums and bass!

If I made our live stream mix a stereo mix would it be a noticeable difference to the listener?
Logged

Brian Jojade

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1814
    • HappyMac Digital Electronics
Re: X32 Live Stream Questions
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2021, 02:41:54 pm »

If I made our live stream mix a stereo mix would it be a noticeable difference to the listener?

Probably not.

Logged
Brian Jojade

Curtis McGill

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 55
Re: X32 Live Stream Questions
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2021, 02:18:43 pm »

Next question: How can I make our live stream louder on the receiving end? I am being told that some people are having to adjust the speakers because the sound on YT is soft.

Our routing is a mono bus mix (X32) to Focusrite to OBS to YT. We try to keep the Bus close to unity but we usually have to turn it down because of distortion in our live stream. We can't hardly get the Focusrite to 9:00 before it starts distorting and going into red (it is at line level). OBS levels are in yellow.

I've been told to apply compression to the live stream bus but I'm not sure where to start: Threshold, Ratio, Attack, Hold, Release, Gain.

Is compression where I need to start? Are there other things I should look at first?
Logged

Kevin Maxwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1392
Re: X32 Live Stream Questions
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2021, 03:20:42 pm »

This is a cut and paste and edit of something I recently wrote that I hope covers your question.

One church I helped set up their X32 for live streaming we took each channel post fader to a Mix Bus (7) and if you needed more or less of that in the live stream they would adjust to taste. This included the vocal reverb that was used for the house mix. They could also send channels to Mix Bus 7 without sending it to the L/R for the house feed. And don’t forget that you have the parametric EQ on the Mix Bus available for shaping the sound. Mix Bus 7 was then sent to Matrix 5 and 6 as the output to the stream.

I used the compressor on Mix Bus 7 at about a 7:1 ratio and set the threshold so it was always doing a little something.  I set the attack and release to AUTO mode and I set the knee to 5. This was then routed to Matrix 5/6 and the matrix compressor was set to limiting (brick wall limiting) ratio to 100 percent and 0 knee, also set it to peak not RMS. And the level was set while watching a test live stream and was set to be just under clipping. This was to keep the signal clean and as loud as we could get it but keep it from clipping. Keep in mind that the dynamic range of live sound is not going to work for any kind of broadcasting feed. Actually at first to get in the ball part I sent a steady tone to the stream and adjusted the Matrix outputs and the limiter to where I heard a clean tone on the streamed return. If the tone is clipping it is very obvious. Then we used playback of a band and we needed to bring it all down a little bit. This church has a Box Caster so there are no adjustments at all in the streaming device. If you are using a way to stream that gives you some control you will need to look into that. There may be a way to increase your output form there. But it sounds like you will still need to beware of the level you are feeding to that and that is where the compression and limiting come into play. 

And although it might drive you a little bit craze because of the extreme delay you could have one person with a tablet (hooked up to control the live stream Mix Bus on the M32 over WiFi) mixing the Mix Bus feed while watching and listening to the live stream in another room. I say drive you crazy because any change you make on the Mix Bus you wouldn’t hear right away because of the time it takes for the live stream to reach the person watching and trying to mix it. When we were testing this setup it was around 26 seconds.

I hope this is of some help to you.
Logged

Mike Caldwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2047
  • Covington, Ohio
    • Mike Caldwell Audio Productions
Re: X32 Live Stream Questions
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2021, 10:17:12 am »

As mentioned apply some fairly heavy compression to the over all live stream mix, trust me what TV and radio do to their broadcast audio is extreme prior to hitting the transmitter, in your case that is OBS.
I have found with OBS you need to run the audio levels well into the "yellow" to get
a decent live stream audio level.
Make sure nothing is clipping prior to OBS.

Joris Jans2

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 65
    • Vester Theater Techniek
Re: X32 Live Stream Questions
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2021, 04:26:47 am »

you don't mention the exact focusrite device you use, but probably you are using the mic level inputs now (XLR) and you can try use the TRS line level inputs if it has combo inputs. is SHOULDN't matter but in many cases, it does.

for a good explanation of compression: see youtube. visually is better then discribing
Logged

Curtis McGill

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 55
Re: X32 Live Stream Questions
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2021, 09:54:39 pm »

you don't mention the exact focusrite device you use, but probably you are using the mic level inputs now (XLR) and you can try use the TRS line level inputs if it has combo inputs. is SHOULDN't matter but in many cases, it does.

for a good explanation of compression: see youtube. visually is better then discribing

 Focusrite 2i2 (3rd gen)

From the manual: INST – Line/Instrument level switches for each input which alter gain and input impedance to
suit either instrument or line level signals. ‘INST’ illuminates red when Instrument mode is
selected. Note that INST may also be selected from Focusrite Control

We do not have it illuminated red. We have an XLR out of the board to a 1/4"
Logged

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: X32 Live Stream Questions
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2021, 09:54:39 pm »


Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.045 seconds with 22 queries.