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Author Topic: Help me to use gate,Comps, Expander etc..  (Read 2131 times)

selah

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Help me to use gate,Comps, Expander etc..
« on: December 30, 2005, 02:20:15 pm »

HI everybody, I'm new and my church just recently moved into a new building and our system has also moved up and I wanted to get some advice on a starting point for compressing, using gates etc.. on instruments and vocals.  So far what we have is a drum set that is mic'd, a keyboard, a bass  player, a saxophone player.  

What are you guys doing?

Let me know if more info is needed to answer this question

Thnks
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Help me to use gate,Comps, Expander etc..
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2005, 02:30:20 pm »

What is your experience mixing sound-you say you are new?  If you are new ar mixing-I suggest unplugging all the comps and gates and get a good sound FIRST, then procede to use the "toys" to help things out.  You have to master the basics first or else there will be to many things affecting the overall sound to figure what the real issues are.
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Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.

selah

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Re: Help me to use gate,Comps, Expander etc..
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2005, 03:43:57 pm »

I've been running sound for our church for 3yrs now and though I'm no engineer we had a simple set up that we were able to setup and teardown after every service.  It consisted of a mackie vlzpro, 2 QSC amps, along with 2 main spkrs and 2 wdges for stage.  

Now we've move into our own facility and have a upgraded set up,

Mackie tt24
aviom IEM
Driverack 260
2 monitor wedges for my Pastor
6 Jbl control 30 along with control 26 for fills
2 JBL MP418S subs
all being powered by 2 Crown xs900, 1 crown CTS600, 1 QSC rmx 1850

The room has been eq'd and the system sounds good but It seems to me that comping the kick drum and our main lead vocalist (who likes to shout) would help.

Thanks
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selah

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Re: Help me to use gate,Comps, Expander etc..
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2005, 03:45:37 pm »

What i meant by new is new to this site,  hope this leas things up a bit,  I'm just looking for some settings you folks in here use at your church as a starting point for me.  Thanks for allyour input!
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Help me to use gate,Comps, Expander etc..
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2005, 04:26:32 pm »

selah wrote on Fri, 30 December 2005 15:45

What i meant by new is new to this site,  hope this leas things up a bit,  I'm just looking for some settings you folks in here use at your church as a starting point for me.  Thanks for allyour input!
There are no settings you use as a "starting point" until you have defined the problem you are trying to solve. Run without any comps, gate, or expanders, till you notice a problem that can be alleviated gating, or reducing dynamics, or by increasing dynamics. Then you can use the appropriate device to help you fix the problem. When you can describe the  problem, someone here may be able to give you a starting point to deal with it. What is it about the kick drum that you think will be improved by using a comp? When you say the singer likes to shout, does he sing quietly as well? Does he require you to ride the fader? Maybe the song should have the big dynamics, maybe not. Those decisions need to be made before you make changes.

Mac
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Don Cicchetti

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Re: Help me to use gate,Comps, Expander etc..
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2005, 05:29:49 pm »

Ivan and Mac have just about nailed it here.   Great advice!  The only thing I could possibly add is that you must hear the specific need for processors before you use them.

You can do a wonderful mix without any of these processors, or any other processor for that matter.   If you are trying to *fix* bad sound with processors, the problem lies elsewhere.

Try this.  Use a CD or tape of the pastor speaking (when no one is in the building) and try some compression on it.  Do you like the result?  Can you enhance the voice without drawing attention to the processor?   Then drag a friend in, and try a single instrument or drum.  

Listen listen listen...

The idea that you *must* have dynamics processing (or reverb for that matter) for things to sound good, causes much bad sound in churches.

In general, the principle is for dynamics processing to enhance things without being obvious (unless you can use obvious processing in a creative way).  Start out with low compression ratios and bring down the threshold until you hear it work a bit.  Again, experiment when no one is around.

I do not use gates in church.  I'm sure others do, but I have never felt the need.

best,

Don

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selah

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Re: Help me to use gate,Comps, Expander etc..
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2005, 06:36:50 pm »

Thanks for everyones input!  I will leave everything as is!  I guess i got excited with this new mixer that has all these bells and whistles and don't really need to use them.  My only concern is the Lead vocal, he gets real loud and I have to turn the ride the fader every now and then.

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Mac Kerr

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Re: Help me to use gate,Comps, Expander etc..
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2005, 08:04:21 pm »

selah wrote on Fri, 30 December 2005 18:36

My only concern is the Lead vocal, he gets real loud and I have to turn the ride the fader every now and then.
Uhhh...that's what you do when you are mixing sound.

Mac
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Roy Richards

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Re: Help me to use gate,Comps, Expander etc..
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2006, 08:03:11 pm »

I use compression on my worship leader, have the threshhold set above his speaking voice, then have a 3 to 1 ratio kick in a few more vu up, that way he doesn't kill everyone when he gets loud.
It also helped the stage monitors, cause the band wanted him louder speaking, and down when he got singing loud. I still have to ride him, but it is alot better on the occasional unexpected note.

It is is a trial and retry process. Record them on CD, then experiment til you like it, then bring in a few others to listen as well.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Help me to use gate,Comps, Expander etc..
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2006, 08:03:11 pm »


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