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[Bill Meeks]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaCzOEnfdatx-sg43liUOAA

So the stuff you see under the "Music" section has all been post-mixed. Vocals were tuned, and possibly some drum samples added. The core performance was live, just sweetened in post.

We had a Worship leader who was a seriously fantastic musician. He left a year ago and our current WL is not so good. Funny thing is the former guy did a lot of upbeat, funky, and fun music. The new guy does the same 7-11 songs you find anywhere else. You know those songs with 7 words and you repeat them 11 times? Yeah those.

Old WL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLM9aLp8QuI&list=PLhHdFOtFmxmwbJ4C9auA7yHq6ThEfuHXo&index=4&ab_channel=LoneStarCowboyChurch

New WL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPxhcAioqM8&list=PLhHdFOtFmxmwbJ4C9auA7yHq6ThEfuHXo&index=58&ab_channel=LoneStarCowboyChurch

That's actually the first Cowboy Church I found when perusing YouTube in the past! Shared the link with a member of our current church who loves that type of music still. He is a native of the Houston area, but has been here in south Georgia for many years.

I agree your old WL was very good. There are some old vocal harmony songs he did with some ladies that are excellent! Also love the old classics like "I'll Fly Away", "Blessed Assurance", "Are You Washed In The Blood" and others similar.

[Luke Geis]

Learning the timbre, root note frequencies, and music production part of being a " sound guy " is probably the hardest part. You can easily learn what an XLR is, how it's wired, and how to connect anything you need to with it without ever touching one. It is a whole new world when you can listen to a reference and be handed a limited set of tools and find a way to replicate that sound. Compressors, gates, EQ, busing, and bus processing, mixing and even the master bus processing all have a multitude of ways in which it can be done. This doesn't even touch the surface when it comes to micing the instrument, assessing it with no reference, and adjusting the mic position to achieve the desired result. Then you get to do all the rest of that stuff on top of it. Imagine doing a one day show where you load the truck, travel to the gig, set the whole system up, tune it and then go through sound checks, to then finally run the show, break everything down, travel back to the shop and unload it all!!!! This is what many of us do just about every day. You have no choice but to create a palette in your head of what makes a good sound and how to get it because you have to use as little energy as you can and arrive at it quickly. This is stuff that can only be learned while doing it. If you don't know how the end result was created, then how do you start creating it? Doing it is what teaches you that. Some learn it quickly, some get stuck in a repetitive rut of this is what I do and others forge the way experimenting with things and use different techniques under different circumstances for the same desired result.

[Nathan Riddle]

For mics, budget again limited my choice. Sort of wanted the Audix set that's about $1000, but had to settle for the Shure $499 PGADRUMKIT7 package. I put a real SM57 on the snare. Currently micing only the snare top. While there is not much daylight between $1000 and $500, when it is the church's money and you are right on the ragged edge of over-the-line, you have to cut someplace. So the drum mic kit was a compromise.

I have, since last year when we bought and installed all of this stuff, been able to buy some e935 vocal mics during the November special to replace some e835s. And if I can catch another Sennheiser sale later on e604s or e904s, I may look at those.

But back to the topic at hand. The tips shared by you guys in this thread have been really helpful. I can now get to experimenting, but now I have some good starting points. Before it was a big shot in the dark. Nothing subsitutes for a little guidance from those that have gone before ...  .

Not to be harsh (you do what you can with what you got) but I can almost guarantee that the mics are what is killing your drum sound. (As long as the kit sounds decent). Get good mics and you'll be happy.

Rent them and show leadership what you can do with good mics.

[Bill Meeks]

Not to be harsh (you do what you can with what you got) but I can almost guarantee that the mics are what is killing your drum sound. (As long as the kit sounds decent). Get good mics and you'll be happy.

Rent them and show leadership what you can do with good mics.

I understand, but leadership does not have a lot of money to spend. There are many priorities in a church. In smaller churches most of the money goes to basic expenses like salaries and utilities. So yeah, you work with what you have and improve incrementally. The e935 mics I purchased were on my own dime (a donation). Picked up four of them during the November sale. The technology upgrade last year was a special one-off fundraiser. And even then the final amount raised was below the goal, thus the need for compromises on equipment purchased when implementing the project.

The kit is owned by one of the band members. It is a Sonor kit. I'm not a drum buff so I don't know much else. Just saw that name and logo on them.

[lindsay Dean]

I'm sure this is the last thing you want to hear but by the time you buy a load of Mics, try to get it just right between 2 drummers, , you might want to consider getting something like a Yamaha drum module and some triggers and go with
some great sounding presets.
  This will give you more time to practice on the recorded tracks  and get some. experience and try them during rehearsals.

[Mike Caldwell]

The audio on the video has had major post production applied, who knows what the actual live recording sounded like maybe it needed that much post work.

I'm with Lindsay, get a good set of E Drums or triggers and a module.
In addition to a lower stage volume the drum sound will be consistent plug and play with some additional kits sounds available at the push of a button.

No one in the congregation will care that the drummer is playing E Drums.

[Bill Meeks]

The audio on the video has had major post production applied, who knows what the actual live recording sounded like maybe it needed that much post work.

I'm with Lindsay, get a good set of E Drums or triggers and a module.
In addition to a lower stage volume the drum sound will be consistent plug and play with some additional kits sounds available at the push of a button.

No one in the congregation will care that the drummer is playing E Drums.

I was fairly suspicious that was the case (lots of post-production sweetening applied). Still was curious how someone could get closer to that kind of sound. The tips and info shared here in the thread have been helpful and I am very appreciative of the replies.

I broached the electronic drums thing when we bought the drum enclosure, but I got not a single "yes, that's a great idea" response ...  . More like they didn't even hear me.

Some triggers and a module might be possible in the future, though. Might could sort of sneak that hardware in here and there over time.

[Mike Caldwell]

I

I broached the electronic drums thing when we bought the drum enclosure, but I got not a single "yes, that's a great idea" response ...  . More like they didn't even hear me.

Was it the drummers who were not going along with the E Drum idea?
Yea there's some difference in feel and a whole lot of difference in the "look", guess which one makes the most difference to the drummer!!

As for the video's drum sound, It was good but nothing I would call the greatist drum ever and go and try everything to recreate.

[Tim Weaver]

I was fairly suspicious that was the case (lots of post-production sweetening applied). Still was curious how someone could get closer to that kind of sound. The tips and info shared here in the thread have been helpful and I am very appreciative of the replies.

I broached the electronic drums thing when we bought the drum enclosure, but I got not a single "yes, that's a great idea" response ...  . More like they didn't even hear me.

Some triggers and a module might be possible in the future, though. Might could sort of sneak that hardware in here and there over time.

If you've got a full drum enclosure I agree with those folks who didn't want E-drums. I'm sorry, but I've yet to hear an E-kit that sounds good for regular music. If you want Flock Of Seagulls, then go ahead with the E-kit.

I would suggest using more overhead and seeing what that does for you. And I have a cheap option for overheads too. Choir Mics! If you've got a set of old hanging choir mics around not being used you can hang those over the kit inside the enclosure. I just screwed a drywall screw into the lid and zip tied the mic cable to that. Make sure that both mics are an equal distance away from the snare so that it ends up in the middle of the stereo image.

Old choir mics go for cheap on ebay and most of them are actually really high quality. My go-to hanging mics are Audio Technica Pro45's. They can be had for 25-30 bucks used on ebay.


Here's a clip I worked up for somebody else. https://soundcloud.com/highspl/drum-example This is our Youth band which is a DW kit in a full enclosure. Beta52 inside the kick (just laying on the pillow), SM57 on Snare, Rode mic on Hi Hat, Sennheiser 604's on toms, and a pair of Sennheiser hanging choir mics for the overheads. Thats it. No bottom snare, no samples nothing special.

Read the tags on the sound clip. OH's only, then all mics unprocessed, then all with a 5 minute EQ, Gate, and Comp set up. Nothing special.

[Bill Meeks]

Was it the drummers who were not going along with the E Drum idea?
Yea there's some difference in feel and a whole lot of difference in the "look", guess which one makes the most difference to the drummer!!

As for the video's drum sound, It was good but nothing I would call the greatist drum ever and go and try everything to recreate.

The drummers were not enthusiastic about an e-drum kit.

[ProSoundWeb Community]