ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7]   Go Down

Author Topic: Help me setup a "Gate" hardware piece?  (Read 3595 times)

Mike Henderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 137
Re: Help me setup a "Gate" hardware piece?
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2020, 07:26:20 am »

I'm not sure if this will create less confusion or more, but I would describe a de-esser as "dynamic EQ", which is sort of like the inverse of a multiband compressor. The former starts by breaking the audio into bands and then applies compression to each band separately, while a dynamic EQ works in much the same way as a traditional EQ except that the level control has been replaced by a compressor; the former uses a series of band-(etc.-)pass filters, the later is based on notch filters (which allows for precision but can limit usefulness as a sound-shaping tool).

-Russ


Makes sense.

Someone told me when tuning his equipment he does it on his computer with his Processor and not by playing this, that or any tune, I am not understanding how one can effectively tune a system that way?
Logged

David Morison

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 689
  • Aberdeen, Scotland
Re: Help me setup a "Gate" hardware piece?
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2020, 08:32:19 am »

Someone told me when tuning his equipment he does it on his computer with his Processor and not by playing this, that or any tune, I am not understanding how one can effectively tune a system that way?

2 possibilities:

If one is experienced, it is sometimes easier to be objective using something like pink noise as the source rather than tracks, because we're not tricked by any preconceptions of what the track is "supposed" to sound like.

If one is using analysis software (anything from freeware like REW to professional options like SMAART, SysTune etc) those work perfectly well with pink noise too.
Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21810
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Help me setup a "Gate" hardware piece?
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2020, 01:09:33 pm »

Mike-

Pink noise is used because it's all in... every frequency is presented on a continuous basis, unlike in a music recording or performance.  This makes measurements easier (Smaart, SysTune, SIMM, etc) and it makes interactions between sources very audible to the naked ear.

Tell me if I've got this wrong, but if I'm following correctly what you are seeking is *uniformity of presentation* regardless of when a recording was made or the medium it was mastered for.  You want The Kinks to have the same LF as Metallica, and have the same subjective loudness, for example.

I understand the desire and think that your goal is somewhat attainable (peak loudness, some auto level control) but expecting the LF of 2010-2020 on recordings made 25, 30, 40 years or more ago is likely unrealistic unless you're willing to hand-edit and enhance individual tracks or albums and save them into your playback library.
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Mike Henderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 137
Re: Help me setup a "Gate" hardware piece?
« Reply #63 on: November 30, 2020, 07:33:25 am »

2 possibilities:

If one is experienced, it is sometimes easier to be objective using something like pink noise as the source rather than tracks, because we're not tricked by any preconceptions of what the track is "supposed" to sound like.

If one is using analysis software (anything from freeware like REW to professional options like SMAART, SysTune etc) those work perfectly well with pink noise too.

Yes, I never thought that optimizing a processor based on any specific tunes would be the best route. When I was having problems with my SB1000 vibration noises in the bass of some tunes someone had directed me to trying a tone generator like this one:

https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

but since the vibrations has stopped [at least for now] I had no reason I think to try this out.

Just for my knowledge though, is that one of the tools one can use for the pink noise situation? If yes, I am not understanding how it should be used. It says to press the arrows on the left or right of that 86 Hz but not sure what I am looking for?

@Tim
Yes, that should be what I am seeking *uniformity of presentation*. All of this mainly started when I had visited one guy who had a very large system outdoors and he played tunes from almost every era. What I had noticed was there not a single tune played which had too much or too little of any frequency or instrument in the songs, it was as balanced as a Radio Station.

I never expected that with such a large system with that much power.
Logged

David Morison

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 689
  • Aberdeen, Scotland
Re: Help me setup a "Gate" hardware piece?
« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2020, 08:09:15 am »

When I was having problems with my SB1000 vibration noises in the bass of some tunes someone had directed me to trying a tone generator like this one:

https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

but since the vibrations has stopped [at least for now] I had no reason I think to try this out.

Just for my knowledge though, is that one of the tools one can use for the pink noise situation? If yes, I am not understanding how it should be used. It says to press the arrows on the left or right of that 86 Hz but not sure what I am looking for?

Not quite.

That site generates single* frequency tones, it defaults to a wave shape called a sine wave but also has options for other shapes.
If you had a suspicion that your sub was producing excess distortion just on certain notes for example, you can use that kind of test signal to narrow down which notes sound wrong, which may yield useful info for trying to track down the problem.

It would be very slow to try and voice an entire system one frequency at a time though.

Pink noise is a type of test signal that includes all frequencies played at the same time, with specific relationship between their levels - such that there is the same amount of energy in every octave of the spectrum.

That makes it a lot faster to voice a system, as long as the user either has enough experience to know what pink is supposed to sound like, or uses some form of analyser like the software programs already mentioned to "see" the response of the system.

HTH,
David.

* Technically, the other wave shapes implicitly contain other frequencies, but that's not the same as pink noise.
Logged

Mike Henderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 137
Re: Help me setup a "Gate" hardware piece?
« Reply #65 on: November 30, 2020, 08:36:46 am »

Not quite.

That site generates single* frequency tones, it defaults to a wave shape called a sine wave but also has options for other shapes.
If you had a suspicion that your sub was producing excess distortion just on certain notes for example, you can use that kind of test signal to narrow down which notes sound wrong, which may yield useful info for trying to track down the problem.

It would be very slow to try and voice an entire system one frequency at a time though.

Pink noise is a type of test signal that includes all frequencies played at the same time, with specific relationship between their levels - such that there is the same amount of energy in every octave of the spectrum.

That makes it a lot faster to voice a system, as long as the user either has enough experience to know what pink is supposed to sound like, or uses some form of analyser like the software programs already mentioned to "see" the response of the system.

HTH,
David.

* Technically, the other wave shapes implicitly contain other frequencies, but that's not the same as pink noise.

Alright, searching the net I came across this article/tutorial. I will try to go through it to see if I can grasp the concepts within.

https://www.sounddesignlive.com/get-started-with-sound-system-tuning/
Logged

Kevin Maxwell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1393
Re: Help me setup a "Gate" hardware piece?
« Reply #66 on: November 30, 2020, 10:00:56 am »

Here is a cut and paste (and edited) from a few different things I have written over the years that talks about pinpointing speaker problems. I was in one facility that we tied into some of their speakers. The built in Sub worked for this application but it sounded a little funny to me so I used the technique spelled out below and discovered that it had a loose bolt on the mounting hardware that would vibrate at certain frequencies.

To find a problem with a speaker I like to use a tone generator that allows you to sweep thru the frequencies. If there is a problem as you sweep, the problem will usually stick out suddenly when you hit the resonant tone. You will hear things that would be hard to hear any other way. This is the easiest way I have found to pinpoint a problem. I have an app on my android phone called “PA Tone” that is simple and works great for that. I also have “FuncGen” and that works great for sweep tones and you can even set a start tone and a stop tone and you can set it to repeat or just run once.

If there is a component or a physical problem you can usually notice it with a sweep like that. It has to be a smooth continues sweep not a stepped sweep. Then when you think you hear the problem, change the function generator to put out a constant tone and dial in to the frequency where you heard the problem. Here is the link to the FuncGen one. I don’t know if this is available for an iPhone. But if you have an android phone or tablet you should be able to find it in the Google Play store. And then just hook up that device to your sound system and play around with it. If there is a problem you probably don’t have to run this test very loudly. If it is a problem with a speaker it usually shows up when played at a relatively normal level. Don’t destroy your system by running this too loud.   https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.keuwl.functiongenerator

You can set one channel to do the sweep and one channel to do the constant tone and switch between them to see where the problem is. The only problem I have with sweeps is it will perceive to get louder as the frequency gets higher and that can really be annoying. But that is the nature of sound. Some times when using the seep to test I will have my hand on the fader to lower the level as it gets higher in frequency.   

There are some sweep tone generator apps for smart phones and some hardware units. There are also probably downloadable sweeps available. I custom made one that sweeps from 40hz to 10k and I have it looping for 5 times for one minute  total run time. If you PM me your email address I will send it to you. It is a 2,348k MP3 file. 

Edit to add: I also have the sweep as a 5169k Wav file.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 11:38:51 am by Kevin Maxwell »
Logged

Mike Henderson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 137
Re: Help me setup a "Gate" hardware piece?
« Reply #67 on: November 30, 2020, 11:40:13 am »

I was in one facility that we tied into some of their speakers. The built in Sub worked for this application but it sounded a little funny to me so I used the technique spelled out below and discovered that it had a loose bolt on the mounting hardware that would vibrate at certain frequencies.

To find a problem with a speaker I like to use a tone generator that allows you to sweep thru the frequencies. If there is a problem as you sweep, the problem will usually stick out suddenly when you hit the resonant tone. You will hear things that would be hard to hear any other way. This is the easiest way I have found to pinpoint a problem. I have an app on my android phone called “PA Tone” that is simple and works great for that. I also have “FuncGen” and that works great for sweep tones and you can even set a start tone and a stop tone and you can set it to repeat or just run once.

If there is a component or a physical problem you can usually notice it with a sweep like that. It has to be a smooth continues sweep not a stepped sweep. Then when you think you hear the problem, change the function generator to put out a constant tone and dial in to the frequency where you heard the problem. Here is the link to the FuncGen one. I don’t know if this is available for an iPhone. But if you have an android phone or tablet you should be able to find it in the Google Play store. And then just hook up that device to your sound system and play around with it. If there is a problem you probably don’t have to run this test very loudly. If it is a problem with a speaker it usually shows up when played at a relatively normal level. Don’t destroy your system by running this too loud.   https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.keuwl.functiongenerator

You can set one channel to do the sweep and one channel to do the constant tone and switch between them to see where the problem is. The only problem I have with sweeps is it will perceive to get louder as the frequency gets higher and that can really be annoying. But that is the nature of sound. Some times when using the seep to test I will have my hand on the fader to lower the level as it gets higher in frequency.   

There are some sweep tone generator apps for smart phones and some hardware units. There are also probably downloadable sweeps available. I custom made one that sweeps from 40hz to 10k and I have it looping for 5 times for one minute  total run time. If you PM me your email address I will send it to you. It is a 2,348k MP3 file.

Thanks a million! Yes, that was pretty much the problem with the bass vibrating at certain frequencies, it was never on the downbeat of any tune, which is what baffled me.

I have an android phone which I never use. Any reason why I cannot use that online Tone Generator I had linked to?
Logged

Dave Garoutte

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2412
  • San Rafael, CA
Re: Help me setup a "Gate" hardware piece?
« Reply #68 on: November 30, 2020, 11:57:43 am »

Most phone apps have a suite of test sounds; sines, sweeps, pink, etc.
Often with spectrum, waterfall, Db meters, etc.
Worth the entry fee.
Logged
Nothing can be made idiot-proof; only idiot resistant.

Events.  Stage, PA, Lighting and Backline rentals.
Chauvet dealer.  Home of the Angler.
Inventor.  And now, Streaming Video!

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Help me setup a "Gate" hardware piece?
« Reply #68 on: November 30, 2020, 11:57:43 am »


Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7]   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.04 seconds with 22 queries.