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Author Topic: Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low  (Read 1097 times)

John P. Whiteker

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Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low
« on: November 03, 2020, 08:11:28 pm »

A couple years ago we went with the Galaxy Audio AS1100 in-ear monitors along with Linsoul KZ AS10 earbuds and as the sound guy who's tasked with mixing monitors as well, I've struggled to make my musicians happy with them. They sound very bright in my opinion and we cannot get them to deliver a decent signal with bass guitar or electric kick drum without distorting. And if they catch interference for any reason, they'll all but blow your eardrums. I've considered upgrading us to the Shure PSM300's, but at $800ea, are these going to deliver much better lows? Smh.
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Brian Jojade

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Re: Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2020, 08:18:44 pm »

Have you tried different earbuds?  That could make a world of difference for a lot less money.  And if you get good earbuds, and it still doesn't work, you can use those earbuds on a better quality IEM solution, so it's not money wasted.
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John P. Whiteker

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Re: Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2020, 08:30:10 pm »

Well, we originally tried the 2nd tier earbuds from Galaxy and we were not impressed at all. These AS10's are pretty great for $60ea. We've tried them with wired headphone amps on stage and they are terrific. So, I know the buds can deliver, but this wireless system just can't seem to deliver the lows. I wonder if I put some compression on the monitor aux sends perhaps. Thoughts?
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2020, 09:05:38 pm »

I have found these KZ ZSR (???) branded in ears to be very good for the price. I was turned on to them by one of the musicians in our youth band and I ordered some of the 20 dollar single driver ones. They work well enough for the singers, but do distort on bass. But the triple drivers work for bass as well. And they are only 30 bucks.

I would try a few pairs of these ZSR's. I would also most definitely get better radio gear. Even the cheapest Shure or Sennheiser iem sets will be much better than the galaxy stuff.
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Pete Erskine

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Re: Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2020, 09:56:56 pm »

A couple years ago we went with the Galaxy Audio AS1100 in-ear monitors along with Linsoul KZ AS10 earbuds and as the sound guy who's tasked with mixing monitors as well, I've struggled to make my musicians happy with them.

It's the ears buds that are at fault.  Change to Future Sonics molded ears for the best in industry low end.

https://futuresonics.com/

even their non mold ears have more bass than any other product.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 03:43:34 pm by Pete Erskine »
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Seth Udoll

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Re: Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2020, 10:57:26 pm »

A couple years ago we went with the Galaxy Audio AS1100 in-ear monitors along with Linsoul KZ AS10 earbuds and as the sound guy who's tasked with mixing monitors as well, I've struggled to make my musicians happy with them. They sound very bright in my opinion and we cannot get them to deliver a decent signal with bass guitar or electric kick drum without distorting. And if they catch interference for any reason, they'll all but blow your eardrums. I've considered upgrading us to the Shure PSM300's, but at $800ea, are these going to deliver much better lows? Smh.

Hi John,

Here's my experience.  Different equipment, same problem.  We use Audio2000's IEM transmitters and body packs and have tried various buds from $20 cheapies to the Shure 315's.  We've even tried the Shure PSM300 system in hopes of improvement, which didn't solve it.

I haven't got it completely 100% yet, but very close.  This is what I've observed.
- Take care not to put too hot of a signal to the transmitter, mine clips at a much lower input than an amplifier does.  That has caused distortion associated with bass/kick.
- My father was complaining of distortion with the bass.  I put his buds (Shure 315's) in my ears to hear what he was hearing. Holey CRAP!!! It was WAY too loud.  I turned the body pack volume down to a reasonable level and the distortion went away. 
- Buds with higher sensitivity go louder with less distortion
- Buds designed with increased sensitivity in the bass frequencies... wait for it... have more bass.  Which requires less in the way of EQ and the signal going out to the transmitter gains a little headroom.

Of the buds I've tried, these have been the best mix of performance vs. cost.  Very decent sensitivity at 108dB/mW and strong (but not too strong) bass response.  They play loud and clear without requiring the body pack to be running into distortion near the limit of it's amplifying capability.  But, I haven't tried them all.  I'm sure there's other good options out there too.

Have you listened to it a various levels?  Does it only distort when it's near peak volume or is it distorted at all volumes?  If at all volumes, I'd verify that the transmitter isn't getting clipped.  If only when near peak volume, I'd consider trying out some buds with higher sensitivity.  The buds you are using are rated 105dB/mW.  The one I linked to above requires half the power to make the same volume, which may allow the bodypack to play the desired volume more cleanly, less or no distortion.

That's all I can offer.  Hope it helps.  Good luck!

-Seth-
« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 06:52:32 am by Seth Udoll »
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Seth Udoll

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Re: Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2020, 12:22:53 am »

Could also try a highpass filter on the output bus, maybe 50-60Hz, and see if that helps too.  It may seem counter intuitive, but give it a try and see what you think.  Most bass amps aren't real strong below that point anyway. 
« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 06:58:25 am by Seth Udoll »
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Erik Jerde

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Re: Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2020, 01:39:46 am »

A couple years ago we went with the Galaxy Audio AS1100 in-ear monitors along with Linsoul KZ AS10 earbuds and as the sound guy who's tasked with mixing monitors as well, I've struggled to make my musicians happy with them. They sound very bright in my opinion and we cannot get them to deliver a decent signal with bass guitar or electric kick drum without distorting. And if they catch interference for any reason, they'll all but blow your eardrums. I've considered upgrading us to the Shure PSM300's, but at $800ea, are these going to deliver much better lows? Smh.

If you want to know exactly what the galaxy can do vis-a-vis frequency response send pink noise out an output, Y it into your computer interface on channel 1, take the other leg of the Y into your IEM TX.  Take the output of the RX into channel 2.  Balance gain, find delay, run a transfer function.  You used to be able to get SMAART for free for a 30 day trial if you don't already own it.  Not sure if that's still the case since I've owned it for years.  If the TF shows no low end then other buds won't help and you know where to spend your money.  If the LF is there then pursue buds.
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Seth Udoll

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Re: Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2020, 07:17:15 am »

If you want to know exactly what the galaxy can do vis-a-vis frequency response send pink noise out an output, Y it into your computer interface on channel 1, take the other leg of the Y into your IEM TX.  Take the output of the RX into channel 2.  Balance gain, find delay, run a transfer function.  You used to be able to get SMAART for free for a 30 day trial if you don't already own it.  Not sure if that's still the case since I've owned it for years.  If the TF shows no low end then other buds won't help and you know where to spend your money.  If the LF is there then pursue buds.

That's a good point.  Even without SMAART, just connect the body pack output to an input on the board and take a look at the RTA for that input.  It should be fairly evident if the bass response is falling off. (I'm assuming a digital console is being used)
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Seth Udoll

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Re: Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2020, 11:32:08 am »

...we cannot get them to deliver a decent signal with bass guitar or electric kick drum without distorting. And if they catch interference for any reason, they'll all but blow your eardrums...

Thought about this a little more.  It sounds like the volume is pushing the limit and likely causing the distortion.  Part of the usefulness of IEM's is to protect the hearing of the user by blocking stage noise, allowing the monitor mix to be heard at a lower volume.  If feedback is super loud, it sounds like a remix of the bus is possibly in order, it's way too hot.  Pull the vocals back.

You might try remixing their IEM mix, their instruments first and building it up from there, making sure volume is appropriate.

Might fix it.
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John P. Whiteker

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Re: Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2020, 02:40:51 pm »

I appreciate all the ideas and personal testimonials. I think I will try to feed a Rx signal back through and see what the RTA looks like. (X32).  I also like the option of trying these other buds. I don't think it will completely solve it, but may help. It doesn't help that my worship leader craves a REALLY strong bass guitar and kick signal. You guys would flip out if you saw the EQ on my electric kick (conversation for another future thread). Third problem... worship leader has very small ears and most IEM's are pretty huge, even customs. We shall see where we end up.
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Matthias McCready

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Re: Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2020, 03:25:50 pm »

Third problem... worship leader has very small ears and most IEM's are pretty huge, even customs. We shall see where we end up.

This could certainly be an issue as well; if you do not get a proper fit and a tight seal there will be problems with volume and low end.

--

For universal ears look into Comply Isolation tips.

I second the recommendation for the KZ's for decent cheap ears.

The ZST is about $18, and it is a dual driver model. It has pretty decent low end. The ZST does not like being driven hard.

The ZS6 is about $48, and it is a quad driver model. It gets more it goes lower than the ZST, however the top end is about 6dB too much in my opinion.

I had a pair of both years back, and I actually preferred the ZST, it was flatter. However there are those that would prefer the ZS6.

--

I knew a vocalist who would always DIME their IEM pack; at one point a coworker, noticing this, suggested the vocalists give the manufacturer of their custom IEM's a call, sure enough the company had accidentally installed the wrong set of molds, and thereby this vocalist had never had a good seal.

--

If you do not have a decent set of cans I recommend that. They can be a good reference when checking IEM problems, as IEM sound is so dependent on the unit and the persons ears.
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Jerome Malsack

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Re: Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2020, 03:35:11 pm »

Looking at the user manual between Galaxy Audio  60 hz to 15k hz.   and Shure PSM300  38 hz to 15khz.   So big difference on the ability to send lows.  Bass will have trouble with the lower notes on Galaxy. 
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Steven Cohen

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Re: Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2020, 10:17:45 am »

I recently purchased a pair of Future Sonics MG6 for both professional and personal use. So far I have only used them for personal use with my phone or computer driving them. While they get loud enough, the bass response is just OK. Perhaps I am expecting too much from an ear monitor? I will try them when I have a chance with our PSM 1000 and see if that makes a major difference. Someone also suggested I get a portable DAC/Amp for personal listening use.


It's the ears buds that are at fault.  Change to Future Sonics molded ears for the best in industry low end.

https://futuresonics.com/

even their non mold ears have more bass than any other product.
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PAULBORDON

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Re: Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2020, 11:46:53 am »

we cannot get them to deliver a decent signal with bass guitar or electric kick drum without distorting.
This headphone amp/augmenter has 3 levels of bass boost.  Battery lasts 4 hrs or so... perfect for worship service... And REALLY a Cheap alternative to buying whole monitor systems and rack EQ's
« Last Edit: November 14, 2020, 01:15:48 pm by PAULBORDON »
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John P. Whiteker

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Re: Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2020, 05:54:26 pm »

So, I'm not sure this little fact is going to solve all my problems, but it might help several people.  I recently had some power issues with another piece of gear and the manufacturer found out I had been using 2000 mAh NiMH AA rechargeable batteries. So... these batteries are quite capable of delivering 1.5-1.6 VDC nominal voltage. However, these batteries will not deliver sufficient amperage that many wireless units require to function properly. You see, the standard alkaline AA non-rechargeable battery delivers about 2.3 mAh. These rechargeables will typically be 2.0 mAh or a little less after a few charge cycles. Who knew?!  So, lots of gear out there may not be rocking at full potential if you're running rechargeables. Just food for thought.
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Erik Jerde

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Re: Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2020, 11:11:26 pm »

So, I'm not sure this little fact is going to solve all my problems, but it might help several people.  I recently had some power issues with another piece of gear and the manufacturer found out I had been using 2000 mAh NiMH AA rechargeable batteries. So... these batteries are quite capable of delivering 1.5-1.6 VDC nominal voltage. However, these batteries will not deliver sufficient amperage that many wireless units require to function properly. You see, the standard alkaline AA non-rechargeable battery delivers about 2.3 mAh. These rechargeables will typically be 2.0 mAh or a little less after a few charge cycles. Who knew?!  So, lots of gear out there may not be rocking at full potential if you're running rechargeables. Just food for thought.

I've run Ansmann rechargeables for over a decade.  Never have had the issues you are reporting.  Cirque du Soleil uses them too. 

A lower mAh number just means that for the given draw it will run for a shorter time than a higher rated cell.  Unless a cell just plain isn't able to deliver above a certain current rating then mAh will have no bearing on the ability of the cell to power a specific piece of gear assuming it's providing the required voltage.
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Re: Wireless in-ears that won't deliver down low
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2020, 11:11:26 pm »


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