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Author Topic: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?  (Read 732 times)

Caleb Dueck

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Re: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2020, 02:04:46 am »

I'm not curious about max SPL per cubic ft.  My assumption is that a pair of 21", powerful, high excursion drivers, specifically designed for a specific horn - would do that. 

My question, which Ivan answered, was - within the parameters of the existing LAB sub, are there any currently known drivers that would perform better. 

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2020, 11:22:05 am »

I'm not curious about max SPL per cubic ft.  My assumption is that a pair of 21", powerful, high excursion drivers, specifically designed for a specific horn - would do that. 

My question, which Ivan answered, was - within the parameters of the existing LAB sub, are there any currently known drivers that would perform better.
Of course the "proper" way would be to build a model of the cabinet and then test various drivers.

Tom may or may not still have the model.  But the time to play with various drivers is a different issue.  More important things going on ya know.
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Art Welter

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Re: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2020, 03:58:45 pm »

My question, which Ivan answered, was - within the parameters of the existing LAB sub, are there any currently known drivers that would perform better.
Caleb,

If you want to pursue that "yes" answer further, you can try putting other driver's TS parameters into the Hornresp simulation program, a lot easier to work than the AKABAK program Tom used..

The attachment simulation model is pretty close to the inputs required, though Hornresp has gone through a number of changes since this one was done, so may look a little different now.

Art
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Tim Hite

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Re: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2020, 10:20:52 pm »

It happened that the more sloppy models happened to all have ferrite magnets, and the better sounding ones all had neo magnets. 

It probably also so happened that the better sounding subs were also higher end subs and they had neo magnets because neo is more expensive than ferrite. Probably better engineered boxes with fewer internal resonances and more powerful amplifiers and maybe better DSP.  Neo has a higher magnetic flux density than ferrite, so it's lighter for a given application.
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Caleb Dueck

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Re: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2020, 05:13:42 pm »

It probably also so happened that the better sounding subs were also higher end subs and they had neo magnets because neo is more expensive than ferrite. Probably better engineered boxes with fewer internal resonances and more powerful amplifiers and maybe better DSP.  Neo has a higher magnetic flux density than ferrite, so it's lighter for a given application.

Could be, but the price differences weren't much, not much more than the cost of drivers themselves.  When asked about it, their response was that it was due in large part to the magnet power.  The difference wasn't based on families of subwoofers, or simple price point; it was solely an audible difference that happened to line up with magnet material. 

Art - if I was fluent in Hornresp and subwoofer design theory, I'd have just done the work myself by now ;)  Also asking since there was a chance Ivan or Tom may have happened on some free time over the years (ha!) and done this, or someone else with a broader range of accessibility to drivers, may have done this. 
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Marcel de Graaf

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Re: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2020, 02:15:06 pm »

Best Caleb,

I have been using my labhorns for more than 15 years. Everyone who`s has build and used it will say the labhorn
is an incredible clean sounding low frequency system. There are 2 primairy reason why the labhorn sound that good.

1.) The driver and cabinet a knit together to one system. The combination cabinet / T&S paramaters are the right
     match for a high efficiency.
2.) The second reason is the design of the lab12 driver alone. The cone is incredibly rigid and stif. TD and Eminence
     have designed a wonderfull driver. A driver that alone is responsible for just clean and low frequencies, without the
     distortion effects, that other would quote as punch.

The later i have seen with my Contrabass subwoofers. Also in this design, besides the high efficiency vs cabinet size, the coness are stiff and riged. There is no room for distortion effects. This makes this system so enjoyable to listen to. At first sight you would say the contrabasses should sound sloppy and slow due to the high mass radiators, but the contrary is true.   

My point here is, there is more to look into only at the T&S parameters. The lab12 driver is almost designed 20 years ago and till today there is no substitute. My opinion in this is that driver manufactures are missing here a very important key aspect.
(of course drivers go way up in motor strenght and power ratings).

Greetings, Marcel
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2020, 03:32:57 pm »

Best Caleb,

I have been using my labhorns for more than 15 years. Everyone who`s has build and used it will say the labhorn
is an incredible clean sounding low frequency system. There are 2 primairy reason why the labhorn sound that good.

1.) The driver and cabinet a knit together to one system. The combination cabinet / T&S paramaters are the right
     match for a high efficiency.
2.) The second reason is the design of the lab12 driver alone. The cone is incredibly rigid and stif. TD and Eminence
     have designed a wonderfull driver. A driver that alone is responsible for just clean and low frequencies, without the
     distortion effects, that other would quote as punch.

The later i have seen with my Contrabass subwoofers. Also in this design, besides the high efficiency vs cabinet size, the coness are stiff and riged. There is no room for distortion effects. This makes this system so enjoyable to listen to. At first sight you would say the contrabasses should sound sloppy and slow due to the high mass radiators, but the contrary is true.   

My point here is, there is more to look into only at the T&S parameters. The lab12 driver is almost designed 20 years ago and till today there is no substitute. My opinion in this is that driver manufactures are missing here a very important key aspect.
(of course drivers go way up in motor strenght and power ratings).

Greetings, Marcel
The contrabass cones are NOT normal.  They started out as normal, but then they were dipped in epoxy/acetone to get them REALLY stiff and hard.  I think you can stand on the cone and not have it collapse.
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2020, 03:32:57 pm »


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