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Author Topic: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?  (Read 2485 times)

Caleb Dueck

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Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« on: October 13, 2020, 04:06:19 pm »

After looking at the LAB sub plans again, and the drivers, I have one question. 

The LAB 12 drivers have ferrite magnets, and were specified specifically for the LAB sub.  Are there any newer drivers, with Neo magnets, that have 'close enough' T/S parameters overall but higher BL and power handling - to provide higher performance overall? 

What started this - the first time I heard nearly all the subwoofers side by side from another manufacturer, I noticed that some models sounded less sloppy than others, and they fit neatly into two groups of subs.  It happened that the more sloppy models happened to all have ferrite magnets, and the better sounding ones all had neo magnets. 

Or is the only logical upgrade from the LAB sub something like the DBH218?
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2020, 05:15:51 pm »

I'm sure Ivan will be along shortly to set you straight, but I doubt that any Neo pro driver will be anywhere close to the Lab12.

The Lab12 has way more in common with car stereo boom-boom drivers than any other pro driver on the market. It was specifically created and built just for that horn.

There may be some car audio neo subs that could get close, but you'll have to do your own T-S measurements. I wouldn't rust published data from the car stereo crowd.
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Steve M Smith

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Re: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2020, 04:21:37 am »

There may be some car audio neo subs that could get close, but you'll have to do your own T-S measurements. I wouldn't rust published data from the car stereo crowd.


Especially when you see some of their claims for output power, then work out what current that would need to be on a 12v supply!


Steve.
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Helge A Bentsen

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Re: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2020, 05:48:53 am »

I always wanted to do something the other way around, stick a Lab12 in a existing factory design.
EAW LA400 comes to mind. I'm sure it's a "Really Bad Idea" and I don't have either sub or driver available to experiment with.
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Doug Fowler

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Re: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2020, 01:45:46 pm »

I'm sure Ivan will be along shortly to set you straight, but I doubt that any Neo pro driver will be anywhere close to the Lab12.

The Lab12 has way more in common with car stereo boom-boom drivers than any other pro driver on the market. It was specifically created and built just for that horn.

There may be some car audio neo subs that could get close, but you'll have to do your own T-S measurements. I wouldn't rust published data from the car stereo crowd.

It would not be the first time TD used a a car stereo woof.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2020, 02:56:13 pm »

It would not be the first time TD used a a car stereo woof.
And not the last-----------

But they have to be specific woofers for a very specific usage.

The drivers and cabinets are designed to be used together.
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Ivan Beaver
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2020, 02:59:47 pm »

I'm sure Ivan will be along shortly to set you straight, but I doubt that any Neo pro driver will be anywhere close to the Lab12.

The Lab12 has way more in common with car stereo boom-boom drivers than any other pro driver on the market. It was specifically created and built just for that horn.

There may be some car audio neo subs that could get close, but you'll have to do your own T-S measurements. I wouldn't rust published data from the car stereo crowd.
There may be some neo high powered drivers that would work fine, or possibly better.  Sometimes the T-S parameters can "cancel each other out".  Meaning that the overall result will be fine, even if some of the parameters are very different.

Of course this takes a proper model and time to find such drivers.

But, no, I don't have any suggestions.
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Doug Fowler

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Re: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2020, 03:25:24 pm »

And not the last-----------

But they have to be specific woofers for a very specific usage.

The drivers and cabinets are designed to be used together.

I can name 2 :-)
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2020, 05:05:26 pm »

I can name 2 :-)

"One" and "Two".  /nudge, wink
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Art Welter

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Re: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2020, 08:05:25 pm »

After looking at the LAB sub plans again, and the drivers, I have one question. 

The LAB 12 drivers have ferrite magnets, and were specified specifically for the LAB sub.  Are there any newer drivers, with Neo magnets, that have 'close enough' T/S parameters overall but higher BL and power handling - to provide higher performance overall?   

Or is the only logical upgrade from the LAB sub something like the DBH218?
The practice of bolting more slabs of the same old magnet together can increase excursion by a lot, but Bl is still weak compared to what can be done with neodymium. Back when Eminence put the LAB 12 together, they weren't using neo. The weaker BL gives that "slump" in response between Fc and the upper end.

Using what looks like a pair of (neo)BC 18SW115 in the DBH218 gives more excursion, more Bl, almost double the cone area, as well as way better cooling in the same S-4 size bin as the LAB horn. The split path still allows about the same path length/Fc as the LABhorn.  A double "W" bin :^).

With neo providing enough magnetic force to push even 21" drivers to far more excursion than the old Lab 12, there are dozens of models from various companies to choose from that can provide far higher performance overall than the LAB 12.

That said, the M-force concept of using a fixed coil and lightweight moving magnet is really attractive when making the "step up" with larger drivers, as long as we are spending other people's money in a time when few in the business are making much ;^).

Art
« Last Edit: October 14, 2020, 08:14:11 pm by Art Welter »
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Re: Neo drivers for LAB Sub?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2020, 08:05:25 pm »


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