ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Down

Author Topic: Venues......... When the dust settles, how many will be left?  (Read 1243 times)

Mike Monte

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 482
    • My website
Venues......... When the dust settles, how many will be left?
« on: October 13, 2020, 09:26:58 am »

I live in an area of New England that has a decent club scene but more so has a vibrant wedding scene.

As of this writing most of the restaurants that booked live music have added tent (think 40x20+) dining and have foregone the music.
Hey, they're doing what they can to survive......no more packed venues...

It's October and it's getting chilly up here after an exceptionally warm summer.....but, it's October in N.E.
In my area "October", to most, means: haul the boat, winterize the jetski/camper/air conditioner, check the woodpile, rake a s**t ton of leaves, check the car batteries, aka: hunker down for the winter
plus
no more outside dining......
If it goes below 60 degrees, people tend go to indoor restaurants or stay home and wait for snow.......  I doubt that people will want to sit in an open tent (even with heaters) when it's 40 degrees outside.....let alone 20 degrees....

Restaurants in my area have very little indoor seating available due to social distancing....  Once the outdoor dining shuts down I am sure that more places will fold........

Quite a few of the performance venues in my are "restaurant by day, live music venue by night" scenarios.  Pre-Covid this formula seemed to work well.
I hope that those places survive.......

Part of me wants to think that the club/restaurant with live music scene will bounce back stronger than ever post-pandemic.  The other part of me isn't too sure.....

If I were an investor (which I am not) I would have an eye on a few places that could rise from the ashes after Covid... 

The wedding scene has all-but-shut down; some couples have cancelled, some have gone to town hall, some have postponed until next year......

Some of the high-end venues in Newport that routinely accommodate two to three $50,000+ weddings per week have zero activity.
What was once a lucrative wedding music scene is minimal at best....

I am sure that some of the mansion wedding venues in Newport are (or will be) up for sale and will be scooped by a million/billion-aire (as was the case for past wedding venues Astor's Beechwood, Hammersmith Farm, Belcourt Castle..).

The scene will be different post-Covid, that's for sure.

I've taken this time to upgrade my basic light rig, but have held back on other PA upgrades due to lack of funds.....
My liability insurance policy came due June 1st and despite being offered a discounted rate (yeah, right) by the agent, I let it lapse - which was a smart move for me as all of my sound-related gigs eventually vanished through January, 2021.

If/when things get going I'll re-up on the above.

I am thinking at least a year after a vaccine/treatment is available things will recover....but to what level?

People are getting used to staying home/cooking/entertaining themselves...

What do you think things will look like when the dust settles?










   
Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21627
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Venues......... When the dust settles, how many will be left?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2020, 11:23:01 am »


{snip-ish}

The scene will be different post-Covid, that's for sure.

I've taken this time to upgrade my basic light rig, but have held back on other PA upgrades due to lack of funds.....
My liability insurance policy came due June 1st and despite being offered a discounted rate (yeah, right) by the agent, I let it lapse - which was a smart move for me as all of my sound-related gigs eventually vanished through January, 2021.

If/when things get going I'll re-up on the above.

I am thinking at least a year after a vaccine/treatment is available things will recover....but to what level?

People are getting used to staying home/cooking/entertaining themselves...

What do you think things will look like when the dust settles?

Hi Mike-

If you've got a working crystal ball, you're doing better than me (bring back the Analogue Crystal Ball!).

There are so many facets to entertainment, hospitality and general venue-ness that I'm not sure exactly what to say except that it will be alarmingly different for some sectors and more easily recovered in others.

Weddings will come back, especially the posh wedding biz.  People will continue to get married and those with money or aspirations will resume putting on Really Big Matrimonial Shows.  For operators like you, it's a question of will they come back in time to aid in your financial recovery... actually, that's the question regardless of the size, type, or perceived hoity-toitiness of an event.

But venues?  The bigger they are, the longer it will take for them to hold full-audience events.  I expect the businesses behind many *entertainment* venues to fail.  Their entire existence is predicated on 70% or more capacity along with "average guest check" sales.  Neither can be done now, and there's little to nothing that can be done to lower their fixed costs - rent/mortgage, utility costs, taxes/insurance, legal and accounting, spoiled inventory, wages for the 1 or 2 people remaining, etc.  Months ago I said that many production providers were already dead, they just didn't know it yet, and venues are very much in the same boat.  The difference is that most venues had the inkling and now they're looking at the end of their money, time, and ability to save their businesses.

So how many will close for good?  Hard to say, but I'd happily season, grill and eat my hat if it's less than 35%.  I'm expecting a majority of small business venues to sell out, get repurposed, or simply close for good under their existing ownership.  There's money in amusing the public, though, and those who've not already lost their collective asses (i.e. have capital to invest) will find their way into such businesses.  How soon, etc are open questions.

I still "believe" in live entertainment.  If I had 10 more years before full Social Security retirement age (instead of 2) I'd be inclined to find some investment capital and start buying distressed assets.  But without that working crystal ball, the unknown wait stops me.

So the TL;DR crowd - expect half the entertainment/social venues of all types to close under their current ownership.
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Paul G. OBrien

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1080
Re: Venues......... When the dust settles, how many will be left?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2020, 07:50:55 pm »

People are getting used to staying home/cooking/entertaining themselves...

Yes but a significant percentage are literally loosing their minds, "mental health during covid" has become a common talking point on media sources which is understandable.. people really don't like being hemmed in so I expect they will go right back to their previous behavour once the coast is clear. Bars and restaurants were bad investments before covid and only the best managed survived then, so without a doubt some venues will close but that just leaves more business for the others. I predict a bit of a rebound bubble perhaps middle to late next year in the wedding market at least, there will be a backlog of couples that have waited which are just going to be added to the list of those that were planning on 2021 anyway, so it has to potential to be really busy with events occurring all week long not just on the weekends.
Logged

Jay Marr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 669
Re: Venues......... When the dust settles, how many will be left?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2020, 10:30:26 pm »

Hey Mike,
I'm assuming you're in RI.  I live a little north of Boston and gig down in NPT sometimes.
My buddies band (Never In Vegas) played indoor at the Dockside all summer.  That club is normally insane.  This year, it was just weird.
Fraction of the capacity, no dancing, no gathering at the bar. 
That's over now (now that the summer is over), and who knows if clubs like that will make it until next year.

Two of my regular venues have closed their doors for good (both in NH).  I suspect we will see more of this over the winter.  The clubs that were holding on for a green light to open again, are not getting it (until 2021 is my guess), and I'm sure that's going to force a lot of them to close their doors.
I think when the bars/clubs get the approval to open again, the music scene will be experience a big reset button.
Bars will have new owners (or at least new booking agents) and we'll all have to re-market our bands.  And most importantly - the will undoubtedly change the pay. 
It already happened with the few places I know that did have musical acts this summer.  Pay was cut in half (even at one bar in NH that was packed shoulder to shoulder.....I still don't know how they got away with it).
Bars up here are always looking to cut band pay.  This is going to be a good opportunity for them to do it universally (which sucks for us).

My band is already having this conversation:  when music returns to our favorite bars and clubs - will we even be looking to play there again, given all the factors above?
Maybe it's not worth the money any longer?  Maybe the venues are just too restrictive and it's not fun? (which is a factor for me)  Maybe the band members get a little older and a little more comfortable being home every weekend and don't want to get back into it again?
Covid has completely destroyed the old music scene, and only time will tell if the new music scene is something we'll all want to be a part of.
Logged

Robert Lofgren

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 925
Re: Venues......... When the dust settles, how many will be left?
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2020, 03:54:06 am »

When I visited Nashville a couple of years ago I remember a large/long street with loads of music bars side by side. Is that a dead street now or are they still hanging in there?
Logged

Mike Monte

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 482
    • My website
Re: Venues......... When the dust settles, how many will be left?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2020, 07:40:46 am »

Hey Mike,
I'm assuming you're in RI.  I live a little north of Boston and gig down in NPT sometimes.
My buddies band (Never In Vegas) played indoor at the Dockside all summer.  That club is normally insane.  This year, it was just weird.
Fraction of the capacity, no dancing, no gathering at the bar. 
That's over now (now that the summer is over), and who knows if clubs like that will make it until next year.

Two of my regular venues have closed their doors for good (both in NH).  I suspect we will see more of this over the winter.  The clubs that were holding on for a green light to open again, are not getting it (until 2021 is my guess), and I'm sure that's going to force a lot of them to close their doors.
I think when the bars/clubs get the approval to open again, the music scene will be experience a big reset button.
Bars will have new owners (or at least new booking agents) and we'll all have to re-market our bands.  And most importantly - the will undoubtedly change the pay. 
It already happened with the few places I know that did have musical acts this summer.  Pay was cut in half (even at one bar in NH that was packed shoulder to shoulder.....I still don't know how they got away with it).
Bars up here are always looking to cut band pay.  This is going to be a good opportunity for them to do it universally (which sucks for us).

My band is already having this conversation:  when music returns to our favorite bars and clubs - will we even be looking to play there again, given all the factors above?
Maybe it's not worth the money any longer?  Maybe the venues are just too restrictive and it's not fun? (which is a factor for me)  Maybe the band members get a little older and a little more comfortable being home every weekend and don't want to get back into it again?
Covid has completely destroyed the old music scene, and only time will tell if the new music scene is something we'll all want to be a part of.

I live 30 mins north of Newport so I'm close enough to gig/enjoy its scene but then retreat to my quiet town.
I've seen Never In Vegas advertised in Npt (at the Pelham if I remember correctly) but have not had a chance to catch their show..
Newport was a bit weird this past summer as, for the most part, many younger tourists were walking around as if nothing had changed...but..there were really no places to "howl" for the 21 y/o's as has been the past; Pelham, Blues Cafe, etc. were sedate....

I got a call to do a walk-in mix at the Dockside a couple of years ago but I was previously-booked so I didn't take it.
I did visit the venue one afternoon just to see the layout...  It's an "earthy" kind of place that "packs them in" (according to my son) during the summer months.

I totally agree that gig pay (for clubs, etc.) will definitely take a hit due to several factors; bands just wanting to play, venues on a shoestring budget, etc.
I feel that the Covid crutch will be used by venue managers to squeeze musicians long after the bar/club scene recovers.....

As far as cutting a band's pay in half: I'm all in to help out, however, there is a fine line between helping out and giving-it-away IMO.
I am quite sure that bars/clubs will do the 1/2 pay thing...why not?  It doesn't hurt to try....but helping out should go both ways.

How about:
a band usually plays 3 sets on a four hour gig...say on a 9pm-1am gig: 9-10, 10:30-11:30, 11:45-12:45 (room for an encore or two)
the band gets booked for 2/3 price..but...will only play the first two sets for that amount...
if the club/bar owner wants the 3rd set they will have to pay the other 1/3 of the band's regular fee....
or
1/2 price for the first two sets and the other 1/2 for the last set.
(If the place is jamming after the 2nd set, the bar/club will not want a band to pack up and leave.)

This way both the band and the venue will have some skin-in-the-game.

As a musician I'd be game...
As a sound man tech'ing the gig....ehhhhh....potentially a lot of work for little return......

I'll keep my eyes open for Never in Vegas when things open up.




 
   
 
Logged

scottstephens

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 310
Re: Venues......... When the dust settles, how many will be left?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2020, 10:57:40 am »

When the dust settles...
                                   Publicly owned (tax payer funded) venues will make a strong, albeit slow, comeback.  I believe that 70% of private venues will never come back. I also think ankle bitters will lower their prices even more. I hope I am wrong about people losing their businesses and livelihood. Thankfully, everything that I own is completely paid off but this giant pile of poop pie is even starting to hurt me. I have been networking and handing out business cards the past few weeks to be ready for a jumping off point when it comes around.

Praying that we can all get back to work soon.

Scott










 
[/quote]
Logged

John L Nobile

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2056
Re: Venues......... When the dust settles, how many will be left?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2020, 12:19:18 pm »

After seeing this thread, I'm now starting to wonder how many venues will close, be sold and re-purposed into something else? Maybe an Amazon warehouse or a grocery store? A liqour store? They're making tons of money.
Logged

Tim McCulloch

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21627
  • Wichita, Kansas USA
Re: Venues......... When the dust settles, how many will be left?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2020, 12:45:03 pm »

When the dust settles...
                                   Publicly owned (tax payer funded) venues will make a strong, albeit slow, comeback.  I believe that 70% of private venues will never come back. I also think ankle bitters will lower their prices even more. I hope I am wrong about people losing their businesses and livelihood. Thankfully, everything that I own is completely paid off but this giant pile of poop pie is even starting to hurt me. I have been networking and handing out business cards the past few weeks to be ready for a jumping off point when it comes around.

Praying that we can all get back to work soon.

Scott

In my fair city, the City's response was to remove the Covidly-empty PAC from the city budget, so on Dec 31, 2020, the city will no longer be paying for *anything*.  There has been a huge power play (with obligatory dog and pony show for "public input") to demolish the PAC, the previous main library, and for the City to sell, give away, or provide tax abatement to developers for a 20 acre swath of downtown, river front property.  The "public/private partnership" will cost taxpayers roughly $1.1bn, and get a new PAC, new convention center, and other development of fuzzy and undefined nature or schedule... so it's not all Covid-19; the virus just let the City force the hands of stakeholders by saying "no income, no old PAC".  And there were theatrical tours, symphony dates, and other events either already scheduled or on the horizon of predictability.

Our city has a huge budget shortfall - some property values have gone down, and the city's portion of local sales taxes have fallen significantly.  The State isn't doing much better.  I'd be surprised if municipal governments can pump money into performance facilities when they're unable to bring back court clerks, building inspectors, and parks/public works employees.  Likewise, with revenue down at public colleges and universities there's less money available.  Across the board budget cuts have been implemented or are being considered.  The arts will have no greater priority than usual..

I really hope you're right, Scott, but so far my grimmest of projections have turned out fairly close...  now if I could only find a way to profit from being a pessimist...
Logged
"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Justice C. Bigler

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2560
  • back home in Oklahoma
    • My homepage
Re: Venues......... When the dust settles, how many will be left?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2020, 03:33:14 pm »

In my fair city, the City's response was to remove the Covidly-empty PAC from the city budget, so on Dec 31, 2020, the city will no longer be paying for *anything*.  There has been a huge power play (with obligatory dog and pony show for "public input") to demolish the PAC, the previous main library, and for the City to sell, give away, or provide tax abatement to developers for a 20 acre swath of downtown, river front property.  The "public/private partnership" will cost taxpayers roughly $1.1bn, and get a new PAC, new convention center, and other development of fuzzy and undefined nature or schedule... so it's not all Covid-19; the virus just let the City force the hands of stakeholders by saying "no income, no old PAC".  And there were theatrical tours, symphony dates, and other events either already scheduled or on the horizon of predictability.

Our city has a huge budget shortfall - some property values have gone down, and the city's portion of local sales taxes have fallen significantly.  The State isn't doing much better.  I'd be surprised if municipal governments can pump money into performance facilities when they're unable to bring back court clerks, building inspectors, and parks/public works employees.  Likewise, with revenue down at public colleges and universities there's less money available.  Across the board budget cuts have been implemented or are being considered.  The arts will have no greater priority than usual..
We've only seen the tip of the iceberg so far. The ramifications of this half year (and counting) shut down across the nation will be felt for decades to come. And the longer it goes on, the longer it will last. The entire make up of American society is about to change forever, and there's no way back.

Quote
now if I could only find a way to profit from being a pessimist...
Let's start a Youtube channel, Tim. We can call it "Two old sound guys complain about stuff". I'm sure we could get picked up by some late night cable TV channel eventually.
Logged
Justice C. Bigler
www.justicebigler.com

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Venues......... When the dust settles, how many will be left?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2020, 03:33:14 pm »


Pages: [1] 2  All   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.046 seconds with 23 queries.