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[frank kayser]

First, let me say thanks for all the great info on my previous thread.
Now, I could use some more specific information - Midas M32c vs Behringer x32 Rack.

First I'd like to acknowledge a couple things:
1) Behringer X32 Rack is effectively an S16 stagebox integrated with "mixer electronics"
2) Midas has no preamps built in, and no input or output channels at all.  Need either a  Midas DL16 or Behringer S16 to be channel equivalent.
3) I will stipulate the Midas preamps are superior to the Midas-designed preamps of the x32 Rack, or S16 stagebox.

That leaves with the M32c and the equivalent electronics in the Behringer for comparison.  I would not be too surprised if the mainboard design in the Midas is very similar, if not identical to the Behringer.

I'm going to guess with the Midas costing x% more than the Behringer, only a percentage of that cost difference is the Midas name.  That name commands SOME extra cash surely, but not all...

So, now I would like a compare and contrast of what's left of the Behringer vs the Midas, if you please.
Hardware?  Better components?  More powerful processor?   Warranty? (10 yrs Midas?)
Software?  Anything significantly different in the branded iPad mixer packages?  MixPad will operate both the same I'm assuming...

Thanks again for sharing what you know...
frank

[Corey Scogin]

X32 Pros:
- 6 more ins/outs via Aux In/Out
- No chance of AES50 connectivity issues when using the local I/O.
- Some basic control of the system using the screen if network control fails

M32C/DL16 Pros:
- Slightly better preamps on the DL16

The Midas name on the M32C doesn't gain you anything as far as I know. I think the processing hardware between the Behringer and Midas *32 systems are exactly the same.
You can connect a Midas DL16 to the X32Rack to get the slightly better preamps. That arrangement is just a few hundred more $ but gains you lots of extra inputs and a "control surface of last resort".

If it were me, I'd go with the X32 Rack every time and add a DL16 if needed or desired. I've never understood the need for the M32C but I'm sure it fits a niche for someone.

[Tim McCulloch]

Corey is spot on.

So far as I can tell, the 'computer' side of both brands is the same.  The processing algorithms are the same.  Maybe the M32C has a better PSU?  Combined with the price of a DL16 or DL32, and an X-Touch to replicate the faceplate functions of the X32Rack... is the application worth the limited resource it provides?

The suggestion of an X32 Rack and DL16 is a lot of bang for the buck.  You've got "Midas" mic preamps and outputs; and I think Production Partner said the AD/DA converters were different from the X32... and you still have 22 local inputs (16 XLR 'Midas-flavored', 6 AUX on TRS) and 14 local outputs (8 XLR, 6 AUX on TRS).  With a 6 ft Cat5e STP with bonded Ethercons you can put the DL16 with the X32 Rack, and having a snake-length piece means you can put the DL16 where ever you need it.  There's some flexibility you don't get with the M32C.  And your use may not need that, so there's that.

Add a WAP and Mixing Station Pro on the devices of your choice.  Add a switch and laptop or other computer for control if the WAP goes down.  Go to catering, wear your mask, get your box lunch and follow the arrows to the dining area on mezzanine 3...

[John Schalk]

I've never understood the need for the M32C but I'm sure it fits a niche for someone.

The M32c makes sense for bands/providers that already own an M32 console and stage box.  By adding an M32c to their stage rack, they have the option of leaving the console in the trailer for gigs where having an FOH position does not make sense.  That is what we did.  It also gives you 100% redundancy.  M32 (fullsize) console has 32 pre-amps on board plus the brains.  M32c + DL32 in a rack has the same.  So for not a lot of money, you gain a very handy setup option and some piece of mind.

Agree that just buying an M32c and stage box makes sense only if you really want the Midas pre-amps.

[Lou Kohley]

Don't forget that 10 year warranty. For not much more you get a great warranty.
Not many other manufacturers offer this level of coverage. As far as return on investment this is the clincher.

LOU

[brian maddox]

X32 Pros:
- 6 more ins/outs via Aux In/Out
- No chance of AES50 connectivity issues when using the local I/O.
- Some basic control of the system using the screen if network control fails

M32C/DL16 Pros:
- Slightly better preamps on the DL16

The Midas name on the M32C doesn't gain you anything as far as I know. I think the processing hardware between the Behringer and Midas *32 systems are exactly the same.
You can connect a Midas DL16 to the X32Rack to get the slightly better preamps. That arrangement is just a few hundred more $ but gains you lots of extra inputs and a "control surface of last resort".

If it were me, I'd go with the X32 Rack every time and add a DL16 if needed or desired. I've never understood the need for the M32C but I'm sure it fits a niche for someone.

The Applications for the M32C are definitely far fewer than the X32Rack. I have no way to know this, but i think that the Behringer version of the X32C was specifically discontinued because they weren't selling enough of them to make the price point and margin work. They kept the Midas version [which is basically IDENTICAL] at a higher price point just to make the product make sense from a margin standpoint.

[Seth Udoll]

First, let me say thanks for all the great info on my previous thread.
...

...
Thanks again for sharing what you know...
frank

Hi Frank.  I read through your other thread and I don't have any experience on the other boards you mentioned.  Matter of fact, other than budget powered mixers, I've only used Behringer and Midas offerings.  Figured I'd share my thoughts and highlight some things I personally find of interest.  In preface, to qualify/disqualify my following statements, I'm just a hobbyist and only do sound for one person/group (my 70yo Dad) at various venues that are usually peculiar/non traditional venues.  I am not a pro like most seem to be here.  So, take it for what it's worth.

I primarily mix from a PC, although I have used android tablets and even my phone for smaller intimate 1 mic, 1 guitar, possibly backing track kind of shows.

Anyway, I started out using the Behringer XR18, and it's still my go to for smaller shows that require 18 or less inputs.  I personally like the stage box form factor this comes in.  It makes it easy to put wherever is handiest and it can be rack mounted.  It has 4 FX busses and 6 Aux buses, which can be a limitation for some, especially if mixing stereo IEM's. It has outboard Multi Track Recording capability via USB to a DAW in PC/Mac.  It's a workhorse for what it is, and it's a fantastic value.  It's also available in the Midas branding too, as model MR18.  Either is worthy of consideration IMO.

The X/MR18 has built in WiFi and can be connected to directly or through an existing wireless network.  It can also connect using a wired CAT5e connection directly to a computer or to a standalone WiFi router.  Reportedly, for a more stable connection in crowded venues, an external router placed high is the way to go if a direct wired connection is otherwise not viable.  I've followed this advice and never had a connection issue.  But, at home in rehearsals, I set it up to connect to the home WiFi and my computer/tablet/phone finds it and controls it without issue.

After having a show that used every input on the XR18, I bought a Midas M32c and a Behringer S32 stage box.  Others have mentioned many of the benefits to the X/M32 platform.  Here's a few things I like about it, especially in the "C" (or "Core") 1RU form factor.  With the new 4.0+ firmware, the main outs (either stereo L/R or mono+M/C) can be routed to the "monitor" outputs on the back of the Core, which means it can be racked with the amps and the stage box can be put wherever it's handiest, eliminating the need to run XLR's from the stage box to the amp rack.  Yes, still have to run a CAT5e.  But, the main out can be a permanent, set it and forget it connection in the back of the rack... and it lessens the rat's nest that can form at the stage box.

I appreciate the Talk Back feature in the X/M32 lineup.  It allows easy communication with the band during sound check and I'm able to keep track of the set list and communicate to him (Dad) privately in his IEM of a song or songs he has left if he chose to jump around the set list based on his reading of the crowd.  Or sometimes mid show he want's something changed in his mix.  He'll signal me, I mute the mains, solo his mic on the monitor (which is wireless to headphones on me) and he and I can have a quick conversation.

The stock expansion card that comes in the unit allows 32 I/O via USB, for multi track recording on a computer, using digital outboard FX, or playback of recorded content.  I have purchased 2 additional expansion cards and use each for their own benefits given the needs of the gig.  The X-Live card allows 32 channel multi track recording directly to SD cards, which is super handy compared to having to record to a computer via USB.  I also use a Dante expansion card for more complex gigs with multiple zones.  It's not essential, but I find it makes for a cleaner stage, fewer runs, and less XLR cabling overall. 

I've also created an IEM rig which has 4 wireless transmitters set up for stereo mixes that are fed from the Ultranet port over CAT5e to a Clark Teknik 8 channel output box.  They're all racked together in their own rack bag, making the IEM system easy to deploy when needed and easy to leave in the garage when not needed... and only power and a CAT5e to have them up and running.  The same output box could be mounted in a standard amp rack to supply signal for traditional monitor amps too.

When I was researching the X32 options, I ruled out the Rack version for three reasons.  1) There weren't that many more inputs than I already had in the XR18.  4 more Aux is all. 2) I was looking to keep rack space as small as possible 3) All the inputs are on the back of the unit.

The Core unit with a 32/16 channel I/O gave me double the inputs/outputs, easy to access XLR connections on the front of the unit, and the ability to rack them in compact easy to tote and place racks.

Anyway... that's my experience.  More times than not, I use the XR18.  It may suite you well if your input needs aren't that great.  Functionally, it operates much the same (not exactly the same) as it's big brother. Sound quality and signal processing are up to par too, IMO.

I wish you success in whatever you choose.  Good luck!

[Russell Ault]

[...] Sound quality and signal processing are up to par too, IMO. [...]

Depending on your use-case it should be noted that the XR-series consoles are missing a few features (e.g. input and output channel delays, crossover filter slopes on output channel EQs, oscillator, etc.), so the one isn't quite a drop-in replacement for the other.

-Russ

[Seth Udoll]

Depending on your use-case it should be noted that the XR-series consoles are missing a few features (e.g. input and output channel delays, crossover filter slopes on output channel EQs, oscillator, etc.), so the one isn't quite a drop-in replacement for the other.

-Russ

All true and good to mention.  If those functions are important to the OP, Frank... definitely be advised.  XR series mixers are great, but they do lack a few premium and advanced features and functionality that the X/M32 does have.

Of all of those, delay is the one I've missed. And there was only one time I used the XR18 that I wished I had delay for a set of speakers I had on a balcony about 60 feet to the rear of, and facing away from the direction the mains/subs main coverage area.  Ultimately, the sub delay wasn't too noticeable/distracting in that situation, I guess I only needed/wanted it out of wanting it to be technically perfect and completely unnoticeable.  But, no one really noticed and everyone that was in that area was so happy they could hear everything so well.  I guess they'd had other events in a similar fashion but without the additional speakers, so all they got was subs and woofy spill from the rear of the mains. 

Anyway, enough rambling.  Good points Russell :thumbsup:

[brian maddox]

All true and good to mention.  If those functions are important to the OP, Frank... definitely be advised.  XR series mixers are great, but they do lack a few premium and advanced features and functionality that the X/M32 does have.

Of all of those, delay is the one I've missed. .....

I have on several occasions inserted a delay from the effects rack on an output on an XR 18, set feedback to zero and mix to 100 percent. This gives you a "system" delay and works just fine in a pinch.

[ProSoundWeb Community]